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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:


IIRC he was TK'ed by Ren, then a trooper just smacked him in the head.. No stun shot..


You are thinking TFA bud.

I was thinking TLJ, when he has his little attempted mutiny and Leia shuts it down.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Here are my tweaks to the damage/wound system which implement this basic concept: http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=161842#161842

Naaman wrote:
I see "stun" as a tactical option reserved for specific scenarios as opposed to a utilitarian alternative to deadly force.

I think that works. I just like having stun be somewhat comparable PCs and NPCs have a non-lethal option while still being tactically disadvantageous to explain why normal damage is almost always used in the films. The goal of a firefight is usually to Incapacitate your enemy so I make Incapacitated a Unconscious result with Stun Damage, but Wounded is only Stunned and Stunned is No Effect, so I fee there is a distinct tactical advantage for setting your blaster to normal damage. And I also have stun not possible for long range and -1D damage at medium range.

Naaman wrote:
If we really want to get detailed, we could make "high damage" stun weapons that compensate for the relative ineffectiveness but carry a risk of inflicting lethal damage.

That's cool. In my stun damage chart I do already include Mortally Wounded being Unconscious plus Stun Affereffects, and Kill being Unconscious plus Wounded. The higher the damage code the greater chance of scoring these Unconscious+ effects. No nothing directly lethal, but the Unconscious plus Wounded puts you further down the track towards dying.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Dredwulf60 wrote:
I think it's only Leia in ANH and Dameron in TLJ who are stunned on screen isn't it?

IIRC he was TK'ed by Ren, then a trooper just smacked him in the head.. No stun shot..


Nah, Leia definitely shot him with a stunner.


AHH,, forgot she shot him in TLJ..

MrNexx wrote:
While I agree that your "Short range only and only certain weapons" matches what we see in ANH and TLJ, it does not match what we see in CW, where Clone Troopers are shooting at Asokha to stun at fairly good distances.


I based my comment of the films only. I don't watch or consider the cartoons canon (even if disney does).

Quote:
If that solves the problem in your games, thats cool. I just have never seen range really matter much in RAW. Every encounter I've been in was up close and personal, unless you count the space battles.


Maybe you need to have more 'medium and long range' fights then.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would allow for fairly long ranges but at a cost of damage.

I can imagine that at point blank to short range a stun blast will deal normal damage, while at medium the daage drops by 1D, then another 1D for long.
and it really can't drop below 1D and still be effective, so there is the range cap


so a stun blaster dealing 4D will at medium deal 3D at long deal 2D and if even shot at extreme range only 1D

this could vary with the strenght of the weapon with pips and higer damage

maybe even drop the damage by 2D pr range band

so a 4D stun can frie at 2D on Medium range, but can not fire at long as this will be 0D
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Snapshot
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taking a look through the Weapon Stats fanbook, I think it's fair to say that ranged stun weapons have significantly lower ranges than regular weapons (eg, a normal blaster rifle might have long range 300m, but a riot gun has long range around 100m).

Why not halve all ranges for weapons set to stun? Dividing by 3 or 4 would maybe be more consistent but that would tax too many gray cells.

Also, can I ask a basic clarification question about stun that I couldn't find an answer to in the REUP rulebook on the forums? I'd read the rules to mean that Stun results stack.

If you get stunned while suffering the -1D MAP penalty, you'll suffer an EXTRA -1D penalty for this round and the next (penalties wear off at the end of the round after the stun is inflicted).

Is that right?

Or is it that MOST penalty you can suffer for stun is -1D?
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be inclined to ask what makes most sense to you.

I don't like the idea of stacking stun penalties: it gets redundant. After 3D or so of stun penalties, the target can't really dodge or attack very well and further attack/damage rolls are nearly guaranteed to succeed after a certain point.

I would say that a stunned condition imposes a -1D penalty, but the penalty only wears off 1 round after the last stun was inflicted.
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Snapshot
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
I would be inclined to ask what makes most sense to you.

I don't like the idea of stacking stun penalties: it gets redundant. After 3D or so of stun penalties, the target can't really dodge or attack very well and further attack/damage rolls are nearly guaranteed to succeed after a certain point.

I would say that a stunned condition imposes a -1D penalty, but the penalty only wears off 1 round after the last stun was inflicted.


Thanks Naaman. I like the idea of stun being a status that you have or you don't. In your game, if you get an additional stun while you're already stunned, does that add to the total number of stuns affecting you for determining whether you are knocked unconscious?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snapshot wrote:

Also, can I ask a basic clarification question about stun that I couldn't find an answer to in the REUP rulebook on the forums? I'd read the rules to mean that Stun results stack.

If you get stunned while suffering the -1D MAP penalty, you'll suffer an EXTRA -1D penalty for this round and the next (penalties wear off at the end of the round after the stun is inflicted).

Is that right?

Or is it that MOST penalty you can suffer for stun is -1D?


Nope, its -1d per stun. So John Jedi with 3d dex and 7d lightsaber, takes 2 actions (-1d map), and is stunned twice in the round, he acts at -3d..
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Snapshot
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Snapshot wrote:

Also, can I ask a basic clarification question about stun that I couldn't find an answer to in the REUP rulebook on the forums? I'd read the rules to mean that Stun results stack.

If you get stunned while suffering the -1D MAP penalty, you'll suffer an EXTRA -1D penalty for this round and the next (penalties wear off at the end of the round after the stun is inflicted).

Is that right?

Or is it that MOST penalty you can suffer for stun is -1D?


Nope, its -1d per stun. So John Jedi with 3d dex and 7d lightsaber, takes 2 actions (-1d map), and is stunned twice in the round, he acts at -3d..


Thanks garhkal. How does stun affect non-organics, specifically, droids and other (electronic) machinery?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't. Droids don't get affected by stun. You have to use ion weaponry on them, like that Jawa Droid Ionization gun we saw in ANH..
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Snapshot wrote:

Also, can I ask a basic clarification question about stun that I couldn't find an answer to in the REUP rulebook on the forums? I'd read the rules to mean that Stun results stack.

If you get stunned while suffering the -1D MAP penalty, you'll suffer an EXTRA -1D penalty for this round and the next (penalties wear off at the end of the round after the stun is inflicted).

Is that right?

Or is it that MOST penalty you can suffer for stun is -1D?

Nope, its -1d per stun. So John Jedi with 3d dex and 7d lightsaber, takes 2 actions (-1d map), and is stunned twice in the round, he acts at -3d..

That's incorrect. See R&E p.97.

Quote:
Stunned characters suffer a penalty of -1D to skill and attribute rolls for the rest of the round and for the next round. A stun no longer penalizes a character after the second round, but it is still “affecting” him for half an hour unless the character rests for one minute.

If a character is being “affected” from a number of stuns equal to the number before the “D” for the character’s Strength, the character is knocked unconscious for 2D minutes. A character making an Easy first aid total can revive an unconscious character.

...A character who is wounded a second time is wounded twice.
...A wounded twice character who is wounded again is incapacitated.
...An incapacitated character who is wounded or incapacitated again becomes mortally wounded.
...A mortally wounded character who is incapacitated or mortally wounded again is killed.

There is nothing in RAW that indicates stun penalties are cumulative. The statements for the other wound status that speak to how they accumulate are not present for stunned. A stunned character is who is stunned again is stunned, which is described as a -1D penalty. They don't stack. Since the stun penalty carries over to a second round, getting a stunned result in the second round of the first stun would not add an additional penalty but it would extend when the stunned status expires to the round after that. And in RAW, we have the cumulative effect of so many stunned results within 30 minutes knocking the character out. But per RAW, there is never a case when multiple stuns will give a character more than a -1D penalty.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the first i've seen of anyone with the belief they don't stack.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that would the first and second, then. Cause I tend to think the penalties don't stack either: if a character get's wounded twice, he's actually more functional than someone who has been stunned three times. Just doesn't make sense to me.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Well, that would the first and second, then. Cause I tend to think the penalties don't stack either: if a character get's wounded twice, he's actually more functional than someone who has been stunned three times. Just doesn't make sense to me.


Difference though, is the STUNS erase the d penalty after the 2 round period. So i can get stunned twice in round 2 giving me a -2d, but if i don't get hit in round 3 or 4, they are gone. So if by round 5 i get hit again and stunned once more, i am only at -1d.. Though i am carrying 3 stun effects for purpose of being koed..
Where as if i am wounded twice, i am carrying that -2d, TILL I GET HEALED>
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It still overpowers the lethat damage. If you take three separate stuns (or 4 or 5 as a wookiee, lets say), all in the same turn you now have a massive penalty to dodge and attacks that virtually guarantees failure of the rest of your combat rolls. You've basically lost the fight already, and so might as well be incapacitated/unconscious anyway.
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