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What is Maximum Range?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:38 pm    Post subject: What is Maximum Range? Reply with quote

All ranged weapon stats have a hard maximum range, which is usually a lot less than the effective range of modern projectile weaponry here in the RW. The thing is, maximum range for a projectile in the RW is heavily dependent on the technical skill of the shooter.

I'm curious how you interpret maximum range for your game; is it the maximum effective range (i.e. the shot keeps going, but isn't accurate beyond that point), or the maximum physical range (the shot fizzles out once it hits maximum range), or some combination of the two, or something completely different?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For blaster tech, I have the blast effectively just fizzle out after max range. It may keep going but is no longer damaging. I also have blaster weapons have -1D to damage once it hits long range, as that is the beginning of the blaster bolt weakening in strength.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For my games (home, not con), i have the bolts weaken 2d after long, for another 20-30 meters... Then they fizzle out.
Con games, it's never really come up.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder what the game designers may have thought.

Given that the sniper rifle has a range of 250m, I get the feeling that they envisioned combat happening in much more compressed battlefields than what real life entails. At 250m, you have to be one amazing sniper to stay alive after your first shot. Taking a second shot that close would almost certainly allow the enemy to zero-in very quickly. It doesn't take but a few seconds to close that distance and engage with basic weaponry... or just lay waste to the sniper's location with the squad's/platoon's repeater weaponry.

I've never really thought about this in actual play because it's never come up. Pretty much all combat that I've played in was within blaster pistol range or melee.

But, since we're talking about blaster tech, and not a physical projectile, I'd be inclined to say it just fizzles out beyond the maximum listed range. I could hand wave the justification for retaining it's normal damage all the way out to max range, though.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It fades or goes “poof” and dissapers in smoke just like in RotS (right side of the screen):

Blaster expolsions

Still, I get a feeling that given ranges are more like effective range for particular weapon rather than absolute distance for the bolt.

Remember how long the E-11’s bolt was being deflected by the magnetic field in the garbage chute before it faded? It’s hard to believe that it was 300 meters distance.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maximum range is when you can't get any further
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
Maximum range is when you can't get any further

Okay...

But why?
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
Maximum range is when you can't get any further


Depends. In d20 all types of weapons had different range for short, medium, long (ect) distances. For example pistol long range was different from rifle long range.
And here’s the thing: E-11 has a retractable stock. In d20, if it was not extended, E-11 was using pistol ranges. But when stock was used, the range was taken from the rifle list. This resulted in more than tripling the max range for that weapon.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets look at a generic assault rifle here on earth.

The bullet will travel about 2+ miles, and can kill depending on a multitude of factors at that range.

Is this then max range? No, max range is the max range you aim with the weapon.


Now look at a sniper rifle, these can place aimed shots to a mile and more.
Not because they have different bullets, but different sights and optics.

so How long does the sights allow you to shoot.

lets say a blaster has
point blank -3m, close 12m medium 25m and long range 40m
the we could easily argue the blaster bolt actually flies longer, maybe x2 or x3 that range, but the max range is how far you can aim and shoot.


now add some opetics to the gun and we can double the range, long is now 80m, but the bolt still flies x2 or x3 of the original range.

lets say you had a chuck norris scope, and the range was now 160m on long range, Aimed.
then the gun above will not be able to shoot to that range, but will cap at x3 ( of the original 40m) or 120m.

so it is all about how far you can aim, as a bullet if not impacting anything can travel for miles, but can't be aimed to much longer than that, at the extreme.

Most sniper rifles are given a 900-1200m max range
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, point partially taken - but dedicated sniper rifles and anti-materiel rifles do have different calibers and even different cartridges in the same caliber.

For instance, .338 Lapua Magnum is a dedicated long-range cartridge with a variety of loadouts. The consistency of loading between cartridges from the factory will be excellent - much better than, say, 5.56 NATO, which is the assault rifle cartridge used by a variety of rifles.

Same goes for the 12.7 x 99 mm round (.50 BMG). Used by both heavy machine guns and anti-materiel rifles, even though you can take a round loaded for one of the anti-materiel rifles and push it through something like an M2 "Ma Deuce", you're unlikely to do so. One may be hand-loaded and polished to a much higher degree of quality than the other - because the requirements to be an effective long-range anti-materiel rifle are stricter than for making a heavy machine gun cycle.

"Match-grade" ammunition is loaded with precision in mind.

Translating that to Star Wars can mean stuff like a better quality Tibanna gas (like the problem the E-Wing had), maybe better quality and more consistency with an upgraded galven pattern, and maybe even more consistent power loading of the blaster bolt by using an internal power pack charged from standard power packs rather than just a random, standard power pack of unknown provenance. Perhaps even a more precise Heter valve, or a two-stage Heter valve for that matter.

Or, you know, just go for a magna caster or something if you want to really reach out and touch somebody.

---

Come to think of it, I think I'd interpret the maximum range as maximum effective range, i.e. not as far as the blaster bolt goes before the magnetic bottle or whatever plasma containment there is breaks down, but as far as the platform can push it before consistency goes down the drain - and the blaster bolt veers off in some random direction.

The absolute maximum range a random blaster bolt might hit something and damage it might be much farther than the maximum range - perhaps even x5 or x10 times farther. I'd likely not consider that except for story reasons.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
Lets look at a generic assault rifle here on earth.

The bullet will travel about 2+ miles, and can kill depending on a multitude of factors at that range.

Is this then max range? No, max range is the max range you aim with the weapon.


Actually that's two different things. As a mil man, we were told each weapon has two max range listings. Maximum range (the absolute max it can go, PERIOD), and its maximum EFFECTIVE range, meaning the maximum range you can still hit someone effectively.
Such as a M-16 has a max effective range area target of 460 yards, meaning the max range i can hit someone, if i don't care WHERE on him i hit, or 800 yards for point target (meaning i can put the bullet on him.
BUT it has iirc, a MAX range period, of 1.3km or so..
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I don't think it really matters unless, as a GM, you want to calculate where a blaster bolt goes and what/who it might hit down range if the shot misses.

In other words, is there an innocent person half a mile down the road, and the shooter missed the target 20m in front of him, but continues another 800m and hits the bystander?

Seems to me that a scenario like that or similar is the only reason one should care about the difference between max effective and absolute max range.
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see the ranges as the effective range, that is, how well you can hit the target. Blaster rifles, in particular, can hit much farther than 300m in my game, but you either need a better scope or suffer a stupid penalty to hit.

The scope is only usable downrange. IE a medium scope would have ranges like 100-200/400/800. Anything under 100m is a hip shot with a penalty.

This kind of stuff is only usable for snipers and such; I ran a SpecForce campaign and didn't want the snipers to be worthless (or overpowered).

I see both sides of the argument, really. Poof or keeps going doesn't really matter unless it becomes a necessity.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmanski wrote:
I see the ranges as the effective range, that is, how well you can hit the target. Blaster rifles, in particular, can hit much farther than 300m in my game, but you either need a better scope or suffer a stupid penalty to hit.

The scope is only usable downrange. IE a medium scope would have ranges like 100-200/400/800. Anything under 100m is a hip shot with a penalty.

This kind of stuff is only usable for snipers and such; I ran a SpecForce campaign and didn't want the snipers to be worthless (or overpowered).

I see both sides of the argument, really. Poof or keeps going doesn't really matter unless it becomes a necessity.


This is what I use as well, I use the effective range
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because I tend to view blasters as a magnetic bottle which contains plasma, I view maximum range as the point at which the bottle degrades to the point where it no longer contains the plasma... it just spreads out, like a fart in infrared, and is gone.
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