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So this Vader-guy...
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Chandra Mindarass
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:36 am    Post subject: So this Vader-guy... Reply with quote

...gets on board of the STD Devastator and captures the Tantive IV over the planet Tatooine.

That's hardly breaking news.

I heard at least five versions of how both ships got there and how Vader knew the plans were on board. In one version he chased the ship, but I never found rules how to chase a ship through hyperspace. In another story, they knew it was Tatooine and then intercepted the Tantive VI upon arrival. How did he know it was Tatooine then? Then there is the version told in the X-Wing game, that is something like a mix of the other ones.

Is there an official version like from the novelization or something?
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Esjs
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding of the level of canon is:

1st the movies
2nd the novelizations
3rd the radio dramas
4th everything else

2nd and 3rd might be switched, but I'm not sure.

Regardless, I think the events you refer to are portrayed in the radio drama, but I don't remember specifics. I'd have to listen to them again (I have them on CD Very Happy ).

I'll listen on the way to work and see if I can't get an answer for you.
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KageRyu
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the best of my knowledge, and based on actual events portrayed in the trilogy, to chase a vessel through Hyperspace involves a few things. Knowing the Vessels last know trajectory before entering Hyperspace, and plotting all possible destinations along that path, then going with gut instinct. Also, keep in mind, Vader is a Jedi, he could have easily used the force to track them, or see their destination, etc... not to far a stretch of the mind's eye.

"Sir, the ship's dissapeared from our scopes."
"What?! Impossible! No ship that size has a cloaking device! Plot all possible destinations on their last known vector and prepare the fleet to jump to hyperspace. I will apologize to Lord Vader Personally."
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KageRyu called it. A mention of an attempt to trace a ship through hyperspace.

And I have seen it done in game. It is just like trying to plot your own HS jump, with no knowledge of the intended destination.

And Vader is a Jedi. He could just plain use the force.
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Argamoth
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vader also knew that the transmissions were sent to Leia's ship, So it could have been more of an interception than a chase.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so I listened to the first few episodes of the Star Wars (A New Hope) radio drama. I'm going to attempt to summarize what happened here:

Days before the STD Devastator attacked the Tantive IV above Tatooine, the Empire was attempting to quell a rebel insurgency on Raltiir. Leia, aboard the Tantive IV, attempted to deliver combat medpacs and military technical supplies to the rebels under the guise of a diplomatic/humanitarian mission to bring medical supplies and spare parts to the high council of Raltiir.

The Tantive IV was forced to land under escort. Leia (with Capt. Antilles) confronted Lord Tion (commanding Imperial officer of the Raltiir mission) to protest. It seems that Lord Tion and Leia had met before. The pompous Lord Tion is rather infatuated with Leia, and she naturally loathes him.

The terse, fakey polite conversation is cut short when Lord Tion is pulled away to deal with another rebel attack somewhere else on the planet. On the way back to the Tantive IV in their landspeeder, Leia and Antilles come upon a wounded Rebel soldier. This soldier claims to have vital information that he needs to pass on to Leia. They take the soldier back to Tantive IV and on home to Alderaan.

A day or so later, back on Alderaan, Bail Organa explains to Leia that the soldier had heard that the Empire has some sort of big military project, codenamed "Death Star." At the same time, it turns out, Lord Tion decides to take Bail Organa up on a long standing invitation to visit Alderaan. Bail and Leia decide to invite Tion to dinner to get a little more information on the Death Star out of him.

At the dinner, Lord Tion starts talking about a special project he's working on under Grand Moff Tarkin. He claims that this project is going to greatly advance his position within the Empire and suggests that Leia could share this position as his wife. Leia eventually gets Tion to spill a little more about this secret project. Tion explains that it is a huge battle station capable of destroying a planet, and that the next convoy from Tarkin's headquarters will deliver the plans to the Empire's vaults.

Leia starts getting emotionally upset about the Empire and proceeds to tell off Tion, at which point she accidentally calls the battle station a "Death Star." Tion, realizing that he hadn't mentioned the codename "Death Star," wises up to Leia as being a Rebel. While Leia tries to physically stop Tion from leaving, Tion ends up shooting himself with his own blaster.

Since Lord Tion was visiting Alderaan on personal holiday, Bail Organa figured it would be a while before the Empire would miss him. In the meantime, the Organas put the information they gained to use. The Rebels attack the convoy and capture the Death Star plans in victory. However, the plans end up on a planet called T'Prowa (at least that's what is sounds like) in an Empire controlled system.

Leia and Bail devise a plan to take the Tantive IV to T'Prowa and quickly intercept a transmission of the plans from Rebels on the planet. Bail also gives Leia a second mission to go recruit General Obi-wan Kenobi from Tatooine.

To pull off this mission in the restricted system, Capt. Antilles and Leia bring the Tantive IV out of hyperspace, pretending they are suffering from mechanical problems. They even have R2-D2 out on the hull pretending to be performing repairs. While keeping up the charade for the STD Devastator (one of the patrolling cruisers), the Tantive IV receives the plans transmission. In a close call type situation, the Imperials realize what's going on right as the transmission is ending. R2-D2 is quickly brought back into the Tantive IV and they jump to hyperspeed, heading for Tatooine.

However, when they reach the Tatooine system, the STD Devastator is there waiting for them. Leia and Antilles are confused as to how the Imperials knew where they were going, but one of them theorized that someone aboard the Tantive IV was an Imperial agent and used a homing beacon.

At any rate, you know the rest of the story from here...

This is a very brief paraphrasing of all the details. I can try to answer any further questions, but it might be difficult to go into further detail short of posting whole scripts.
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KageRyu
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An agent with a homing beacon is also plausible. And we know that in the Star Wars universe, the Holonet uses a form of Hyper-wave transmission for FTL communication. We also know there are other forms of FTL communication, such as Subspace radios and the like. It is just as possible the agent read the destination from the navcom and broadcast it to the imperials. Some other possibilities are:

Hyperspace Buoys that are used for navigation and detection.
Following the Hyperspace Wake of an FTL ship (A Hyperdrive has to have an enormous energy signature).
Flight Paths logged with BoSS and other imperial flight agencies.

Hope these give some ideas.
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Chandra Mindarass
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:32 am    Post subject: Who was Han Solo again? Reply with quote

Yeah, that helped a lot, it's always good to hear how experienced GMs handle it. I think I like the possible jump points + Jedi "guessing" version best. Especially in the light of the bells, that must have rang in Vader's helmet when he heard "Tatooine" - this whole part about Lord Tion was totally obscure for me...thanks Esjs!

I was always wondering about the possibilities of FTL chases, but last week's game brought it back to the surface, when the players just barely (40 seconds?) escaped a task force of imperial ships after blowing up a fuel depot. They escaped using the debris and radiation as cover and I wondered, if I missed an opportunity to give them some nightmares.

A few thoughts on the other possibilities: Any type of rogue signal would have caught attention on a capital ship, wouldn't it? It can be credited to Han Solo's self-esteem, that he really thought he had escaped from the first Death Star and didn't check for any unwanted emissions. The signature tracing theory comes to a problematic point at the end of Episode V, where the imperial fleet has no hand in stopping the Millennium Falcon from escaping, but then again there is the size of the Corvette vs the heavily modified smuggler ship, which could have possibilities to at least "cloak" its energy signature.
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Esjs
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, this is very detailed:

http://www.starwarstimeline.com/Year%2035a.htm

If you want to read a more detailed portrayal of the events I described, find on the page the entries with sources:

Star Wars: The National Public Radio Dramatization (Episode 2: Points of Origin)
Star Wars: The National Public Radio Dramatization (Episode 3: Black Knight, White Princess, and Pawns)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Who was Han Solo again? Reply with quote

Chandra Mindarass wrote:
A few thoughts on the other possibilities: Any type of rogue signal would have caught attention on a capital ship, wouldn't it?

I would say this is dependant on a great number of things: Is the ship equipped to deal with errant transmissions? Are the ship's crew actively looking for transmissions? How attentive is the officer responsible for monitoring these things? Is the agent transceiver geared to resemble some other form of less noticable emmission (common with the intelogence industry today, so i am sure the empire would have better technology)? How long the transmission lasts (short transmissions, such as a handful of coordinates, or just a planets name would be more lickley to go undetected as opposed to long transmissions).

Quote:
The signature tracing theory comes to a problematic point at the end of Episode V, where the imperial fleet has no hand in stopping the Millennium Falcon from escaping, but then again there is the size of the Corvette vs the heavily modified smuggler ship, which could have possibilities to at least "cloak" its energy signature.

Possibly, but we also know the Falcon has extensive ECM, jammers, and electronic warfare gear. Furhter, we know Han is a smuggler so he probably has forged transponders (I read somewhere he had a sabac cheater chip rigged to the transponder to generate a false ID randomly, wish I remembered where I read it). Also, we know Han rarely files a flight plan with any agency. If you are talking about following the Hyperspace trail, we know the Falcon is small, with a highly modified hyperdrive, and would be much harder to track than a Correllian Corvette. Also, following a Hyperdrive track would take time, and a lot of effort, certainly not allowing for you to arrive before the person you are following, it was merely presented as a possible option.
As for the sensor nets, or buoys, due to the vastness of the galaxy, they certainly wouldn't be all-inclusive. Their would be gaps in the coverage. Again, those were presented as a possible idea.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You all forget that there was a imperial spy protocol droid in Tantive IV. This droid could have intercepted astrogation data and send them to the Devastator before Tantive IV jump into hyperspace to Tatooine.
I will find the name of that droid Smile
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Chandra Mindarass
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I would say this is dependant on a great number of things: Is the ship equipped to deal with errant transmissions? Are the ship's crew actively looking for transmissions? How attentive is the officer responsible for monitoring these things? Is the agent transceiver geared to resemble some other form of less noticable emmission (common with the intelogence industry today, so i am sure the empire would have better technology)? How long the transmission lasts (short transmissions, such as a handful of coordinates, or just a planets name would be more lickley to go undetected as opposed to long transmissions).


Of course. I just expected those guys on the Tantive VI to be highly nervous and on their toes...good personell is hard to find. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phalanks Balas wrote:
You all forget that there was a imperial spy protocol droid in Tantive IV. This droid could have intercepted astrogation data and send them to the Devastator before Tantive IV jump into hyperspace to Tatooine.
I will find the name of that droid Smile


Actually Esjs brought up the agent on board. Also, the question overall was about how one might chase someone in Hyperspace, I think the example with the Tantive IV was used just as an example, or at least that's how I read it. So I was giving numerous Ideas as to how it could be done.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't read all the posts, but there is a skill called 'Track hyperspace trail" Vader being a hunter, always chasing down Jedi, i would assume he would have some knowledge in this skill

of course that is only one possibility
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Esjs
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phalanks Balas wrote:
You all forget that there was a imperial spy protocol droid in Tantive IV. This droid could have intercepted astrogation data and send them to the Devastator before Tantive IV jump into hyperspace to Tatooine.
I will find the name of that droid Smile




http://www.decipher.com/starwars/cardlists/anewhope/dark/large/u3po.html
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