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Size over Scale
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KageRyu
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rules for Die Caps are posted in the following sources:
Star Wars - The Role Playing Game, 2nd Edition (Blue Cover)
The Star Wars Rules Companion
Star Wars Gamemaster's Screen - 2nd Edition

They are all, essentially, the same.
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MA-3PO
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimace wrote:
Argamoth wrote:
Ok, I think I got it. But it never reduces the number of dice being rolled, correct?


That is correct. That is one of the BIG reasons why I always felt Die Caps were better than added dice. You still rolled the same amount that you were SUPPOSED to...the number on your sheet. There wasn't any "how many extra dice do I roll?" or anything. I told them what their cap was, and my players added up the dice, following the cap rule. Simple.
I started playing using the die cap system. My question is what are the advantages to using the R&E scale system? There has to be some reason they thought it was a better idea. Anybody from WEG reading this?
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Gry Sarth
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Joined: 25 May 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the only thing with the 2nd edition scale rules is that it uses a device that's alien to the rest of the system. Adding or subtracting dice is right there with how this system works, considering that any roll above 3, or 4 or 5, or whatever is 3 or 4 or 5 is strikingly unique, which means it's not very organic to the system. I agree that the RE rules sometimes add to the bucket-o-dice, but I never had a problem with that, it's VERY rare in my games that we get to roll over 8 dice together, so it's actually fun, it feels momentuous.
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Last edited by Gry Sarth on Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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KageRyu
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, the Die Caps system was rather unique, but I feel it handles scale better, while reducing the dice rolled. That is why I continue to use it.
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:
I think the only thing with the 2nd edition scale rules is that it uses a device that's alien to the rest of the system. Adding or subtracting dice is right there with how this system works, considering that any roll above 3, or 4 or 5, or whatever is 3 or 4 or 5 is strikingly unique, which means it's not very organic to the system. I agree that the RE rules sometimes add to the bucket-o-dice, but I never had a problem with that, it's VERY rare in my games that we get to roll over 8 dice together, so it's actually fun, it feels momentuous.


A hush falls over the crowd as Gry Sarth steps up to the table. He's going to be attempting a 9-dice roll. A gasp escapes several engrossed spectators as the dice tumble from his hands... Laughing Laughing Laughing
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obidancer
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:23 pm    Post subject: table Reply with quote

If it may help some, here is the table...

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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Way to go, Obi! That ought to help- especially for those with little to no idea what we're talking about... Smile
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KageRyu
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel that, whether using Die Caps or added dice, the scaling system in star wars was not really handled well. It's not so much the mechanics of it, but the way scales were named that bothers me. It seems there are a lot of authors in the fan comunity that just do not realize the Names of the scales have nothing to do with descriptives of how/what objects of that scale look like, move like, or resemble. This is especially apparent with things that use movement of either repulsorlift or walker locomotion. I keep running into vehicles, droids, and power armor that should fall under either character or speeder scale listed as Walker because "it walks"... or personal conveyances, like gravity belts, that are listed as Speeder because they are repulsorlift devices. It seems a lot of people fail to realize these are terms of comparative size and durability, not descriptives of physical operation. Confused
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. Heck there are some cap ships, i feel are just large starfighters, and concequently, some large fighters i feel should be cap ships...
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Vartax
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for posting the cap diagram! But I think I understand the why they went to using the R&E. It's less time checking the chart. And yes I know that if you've only been playing with it goes fast. I haven't used hardly at all the past 7 years. But thank you all the same! Very Happy
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TarlSS
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...That chart looks painful.

Additionally, there's something to cutting through a Star Destroyer hull with a lightsaber or packing a shuttle full of character scale explosives and running it up to a capital ship. It has a very Star Wars flavor to it, extraordinary individuals coming up with stupid ideas that defy logical engineering. Certainly these mechanisms have been used in countless comics, movies and games. I mean,in XvT:BOP they use a corvette laden with proton bombs to take out the bridge of a Super Stardestroyer. There is certainly precedent for it.
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And it need not even be a corvette laden with explosives. In ROTJ an out-of-control A-wing crashed into the viewport of the Executor, which essentially took the thing out.

And remember- the bridge itself is constructed with a LOT of transparisteel, which isn't going to be as hard to demolish as straight up hull plating.
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MA-3PO
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KageRyu wrote:
I feel that, whether using Die Caps or added dice, the scaling system in star wars was not really handled well. It's not so much the mechanics of it, but the way scales were named that bothers me. It seems there are a lot of authors in the fan comunity that just do not realize the Names of the scales have nothing to do with descriptives of how/what objects of that scale look like, move like, or resemble. This is especially apparent with things that use movement of either repulsorlift or walker locomotion. I keep running into vehicles, droids, and power armor that should fall under either character or speeder scale listed as Walker because "it walks"... or personal conveyances, like gravity belts, that are listed as Speeder because they are repulsorlift devices. It seems a lot of people fail to realize these are terms of comparative size and durability, not descriptives of physical operation. Confused
Agreed. I think another problem in the fan community is the "inflation" of stats. If you look at a lot of the fan based stuff and compare it to typical WEG stats it looks like things have gotten out of hand. For example, I was on the holonet the other day and saw a "basic" battle droid with blaster 7D.
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..."basic" to fight against Yoda, maybe. Not against PCs.
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Vartax
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Agreed. I think another problem in the fan community is the "inflation" of stats. If you look at a lot of the fan based stuff and compare it to typical WEG stats it looks like things have gotten out of hand. For example, I was on the holonet the other day and saw a "basic" battle droid with blaster 7D."

True but I have seen Assasin droids with more in the books. THe basic security droids have 7d in the R&E. Graneted having enough money to pay for even the permits for such droids should be a lot.[/quote]
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