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Rate of Fire with melee weapons?
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Lord Ben
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:40 pm    Post subject: Rate of Fire with melee weapons? Reply with quote

How many attacks can you make with melee weapons in a round? A blaster with a ROF of 1 can only shoot once but I never see anything for melee weapons.

A moderate Jedi 7D lightsaber, 3D sense could spend a force point for a pool of 20 and make 10 attacks with 10 dice each!!! Anything stopping this?
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Esjs
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... interesting situation. I don't think there's anything in the rules to stop this, but the GM might want to impose an ad hoc "reality restriction" in such a case; GM says "You're only going to get to do a max of 5 attacks this round." This is very similar to another thread talking about how many "free actions" you can take. Again... don't let your players deliver the State of the Union address while firing a shot.
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Stule
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"A moderate Jedi 7D lightsaber, 3D sense could spend a force point for a pool of 20 and make 10 attacks with 10 dice each!!! Anything stopping this?"


Yeah, A Thermal Detonator!!!

I agree with Esjs. Don't let your players run your game. As for the Lightsaber thing, well if you got a Jedi in your game that wants to use a Force Point and Lightsaber combat, let the Emperor feel this and send one of his minimum wage minions after your player. We have a Jedi in our game and he is scared to death to use his powers becasue every time he does (And he abuses them), I have an agent of Evil, a Dark Jedi, show up to turn him or kill him.

Remember, it's your game!
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Hellcat
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:07 am    Post subject: Re: Rate of Fire with melee weapons? Reply with quote

Lord Ben wrote:
How many attacks can you make with melee weapons in a round? A blaster with a ROF of 1 can only shoot once but I never see anything for melee weapons.

A moderate Jedi 7D lightsaber, 3D sense could spend a force point for a pool of 20 and make 10 attacks with 10 dice each!!! Anything stopping this?


Ok, so that's two attacks a second. Even with a Jedi ussing the Force to make them faster, that just doesn't seem likely. Plus thats ten actions without looking to be any reactions since you're attacking rather than parrying, so that's a -9D penalty.

A round lasts five seconds, so you really want to take into account all the movements required to make an attack with any melee weapon. I'd have the say that you can only attack once in a round with any melee weapon. a rate of fire of two or more on a ranged weapon suggests that it is either automatic or semi-automatic, but melee weapons are neither.
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Allembrande
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that two attacks a second, if you are doing a recless flurry aided by the force, and not spending any to be defensive (no force powers up, no parries etc) is actually acceptable. Grab a stick and see how many times you can hit a tree in ten seconds. Making a swing isn't that hard, nor time consuming, it's landing it thats tough, and that's what skill pools reflect. That being said, if you don't like it, it's your game, so put your foot down.

I am playing a Clonetrooper right now and at least once a game I spend a force point to shoot up to ten troopers in a row. Sure I have a blaster rifle, but it isn't firing like a machine gun, I am aiming up to ten shots here and sometimes hitting with all of them. It's space opera, not Sci-Fi, and sometimes time stands still for the heroes for a moment...
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Tatum
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. A master swordsman could go through a series of thrusts and slashes pretty quickly, Id assume. So, youd assume that a jedi could be even faster, not to mention a jedi using a force point.

In the end though, limit it to what ever you and your players think is reasonable. But, I wouldnt limit things to much when a force point is used. Characters are supposed to do extraordinary things with force points, thats why their so cool.
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Grimace
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always impose a restriction of a number of actions equal to the number before the D in Dexterity. Double if using a Force Point. So 4D in DEX means they normally get 4 actions maximum in a round. Use a Force Point, and they can do 8 actions. Reasonably limiting while still allowing people to go spin crazy when they burn a force point.
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Allembrande
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good guideline but I see this problem:

While the reasoning is good, the choice to use the Die value for Dex is mostly arbitrary. In most cases, this policy results in a number which we can closely relate to accomplishable actions but it is ultimately arbitrary. If we were playing a system where the game designers decided that 5D was the human max for dex, without considering the application you suggested, then you may still make that suggestion. The result is that a ruling the game designers never planned upon is being made based off numbers never intended for that purpose. In the hypothetical situation above, where 5D is the max, people are simply able to make faster attacks. Why? Because the ruling is arbitrary and based on using in game systematics for the sake of having numbers to fall back on. A simple Storyteller call should suffice, because remember: Brawling is based on Str, right. So a player in your group may say, do I get as many brawls as I have Dice in Str? If so, that doesn't make any sense, especially if they have a Str of 6D and a Dex of 2D, where is all this co-ordination coming from. Lets say you tell them that no, their multiple action max is still based on Dex, well thats not fair. A jedi who maxes Dex will have a second edge over the Wookie wrestler, and that will seem unfair to players.

I like your idea, so this note is meant as a caution of adding arbitrary rules, especially ones derived from rules not meant to have new rules founded on them. I encourage house rules, but also close monitoring thereof.
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Grimace
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Point taken, and noted. I will mention, however, that I have not have any problems with using that particular restriction, and I have been using it in my games for going on nearly 10 years now. My players, when they think about it, say that it makes sense most of the time. In cases where it doesn't make sense, such as when trying to hack into something using technical, and making several actions with something like that, I tend to disregard the limitation. Those instances, though, don't come up often, as most times the only cases where people try to do more is in combat.

Seeing as how it is a house rule, however, it is up to each particular GM to decide when it makes sense to use and when it doesn't. If someone is cringing over the fact that a Jedi can make 10 attacks, and still have time for running around and parrying things, then this can give them something to base a limitation off of, rather than saying "Because I said so" when they tell someone they can't do that many things in one round.
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Volar the Healer
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: Rate of Fire with melee weapons? Reply with quote

Lord Ben wrote:
How many attacks can you make with melee weapons in a round? A blaster with a ROF of 1 can only shoot once but I never see anything for melee weapons.

A moderate Jedi 7D lightsaber, 3D sense could spend a force point for a pool of 20 and make 10 attacks with 10 dice each!!! Anything stopping this?


I've never seen an ROF for a melee weapon. And when I started playing, the ROFs for ranged weapons contained several errors so we've always just ignored them.

As for the Ginsu Jedi - I don't see a problem with this. I've never had a 10D Jedi in my 20+ years of gaming, but it looks like this is exactly what the Jedi are doing in the movies. How many times did Obi-Wan attack and parry in six seconds of combat against Darth Maul? 'Nuff said.
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