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atgxtg
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 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: |
I guess its how i run Stormies.. i see them as only ganging up if their commander says to OR if they see an obvious high level threat. |
But if they are supposed to be this elite fighting force, they should be able to access the threat situation, realize that the Jedi is more of a danger than the rest of the group combined (after all, they tried to assainate the Chancellor and overthriow the Republic), and shoot at the Jedi.
Now if you go with the 1 MAP per parry rule, you will get results very much like what we see happening to the Jedi during Order 66.
But the thing is, the rebels are always outnumbered in Star Wars, they don't have much choice about it, and the game has to be forgiving or else the group won't last.
it's like the Battle of Endor. The Imperial forces coulld of, should of, and would of massacred a bunch of low tech furries. If nothing else, point blank greades would do the trick. But a handful of rebels and a tribe of Ewoks defeat an entire legion of elite Imperial soldiers. Becuase that is how things work in Star Wars. And since we are playing Star Wars, that is how it should work in the RPG. No matter ow dumb it was. |
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | ...And since we are playing Star Wars, that is how it should work in the RPG. No matter ow dumb it was. |
Well it was only really dumb because it was Ewoks. If it had been something big and strong like Wookiees I would have bought it. But the Ewoks were small, awkward, slow, and looked like teddy bears. Seeing them as able to take on stormtroopers twice their size, in armor, with blasters - just didn't buy it. It overly taxed my suspension of disbelief. It's like those TV shows and films in the late 90s and the 00s where they want a kick @$$ girl, but they make her tiny and petite. I have a hard time buying that. Now Lucy Lawless, she looked like if she threw a punch it would knock you down. Despite that, I like Buffy a lot, but she had magical slayer strength. Maybe thats what the Ewoks needed, that and some DEX.  |
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | The wild die is just too erratic. One out of three rolls gets affected by it. And one in 6 is far to common for a mishap.
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I have come to realize that I really don't like the wild die. It's just silly. The fumble should be something along with multiple 1.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
Plus Star Wars is not a "follow the dice" type of RPG. You might run it that way, but the rulebooks (all the edtions) and the published adventures all go out of thier way to give the PCs lots of breaks because they are PCs. Up to and including the ability to spend CPs. This RPG is heavily biased towards the PCs. it has to be. Otherwise, pretty much every battle would be an easy win for the Empire.
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Then why is the combat section opened up with "COMBAT IS DEADLY"
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Bren
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | | The wild die is just too erratic. One out of three rolls gets affected by it. And one in 6 is far to common for a mishap. |
I have come to realize that I really don't like the wild die. It's just silly. The fumble should be something along with multiple 1. |
I like the wild die. It's fun to see the 6's pile up sometimes allowing a character a classic moment of awesome. Equally it allows a way to add a little excitement into the lives of the overpowered - "Hey Obi-wan that 1 on the wild die means Jango knocks away your lightsaber. Roll one D6 for distance and one D6 for direction and I'll look on the grenade deviation diagram to see where your lightsaber ends up." 
Some folks seem to really over use the complication. The 1 generally just means you take away the 1 and the highest die, so it's not a mishap most of the time. The mishap should be something dramatically interesting or that advances the plot like Han snapping the twig on Endor, not you rolled a 1 you're TD blows up and you die. It's a wild die, not a death kind of die. 
| garhkal wrote: | | Then why is the combat section opened up with "COMBAT IS DEADLY" |
Because it easily can be. Not because it always has to be. The rules are not just black and white. Seriously look at your book, red text and everything. From page 69:
| SWRPG 2nd Ed. R&E wrote: | | Interpret the Rules. ...Sometimes you'll also have to "fudge" the game results to strike the right balance and make the game challenging. The players should be rewarded for smart decisions. They shouldn't succeed just because of great die rolls, especially if they make bad decisions along the way...Sometimes the players will come up with a good plan, but roll poorly: a character shouldn't die just because of a bad roll... |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I like the wild die. It's fun to see the 6's pile up sometimes allowing a character a classic moment of awesome. Equally it allows a way to add a little excitement into the lives of the overpowered - "Hey Obi-wan that 1 on the wild die means Jango knocks away your lightsaber. Roll one D6 for distance and one D6 for direction and I'll look on the grenade deviation diagram to see where your lightsaber ends up." Laughing |
I have lost track of the number of times someone with a wild wild dice got better than someone with 4-5d base skill better than them..
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:39 am Post subject: |
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In Randoms defence, as we dont use CPs to boost dierolls the Wild die can be very deadly...
The way we use it is if it comes up a 1, roll again and subtract that number. If you roll a 6, keep rolling and subtracting.
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Bren
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | In Randoms defence, as we dont use CPs to boost dierolls the Wild die can be very deadly... |
I forgot that. In addition to the wild die, CPs and FPs are one of the things I like about Star Wars. CPs do help moderate a 1 on the wild die. CPs used in combat for defense allow the PCs to avoid death, CPs used on other skills for success mirror that extra effort that heroes are often able to exert, and finally CPs can mitigate a bad roll that doesn't advance the plot, but only makes the PC look bad in an uncolorful way. And of course FPs sometimes let characters do the impossible. But I can see where without CPs using the wild die is a bit too unpredictable.
In fact I like the openness of the wild die a lot better than I liked fumbles and critical hits in Runequest and other game systems that I have played. But hey, to each his or her own.  |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | CPs do help moderate a 1 on the wild die. |
Which is kind of my issue with the Wild Die/ CP mechanism. Why have one mechanism that increases the risk of failure and then another to decrease it.
Why not cut both and save you some time..
We havent removed the Wild Die, but essentially its just 'open ended' both downwards and upwards, no complications.
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Bren
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Why have one mechanism that increases the risk of failure and then another to decrease it.
Why not cut both and save you some time..
We havent removed the Wild Die, but essentially its just 'open ended' both downwards and upwards, no complications. |
You could. I like the added randomness. And there is always the opportunity for a complication, which I also like in moderation and in keeping with what we see in the films - Han Solo is the classic example, but possibly Chewiee springing the net trap on Endor and R2 cutting their way out of it as well would be example of 1's on the wild die.
Allowing characters to negate the just gives the player a bit more control. They don't have to use it, but they can if it really matters. Generally we have house ruled that we ignore a 1 on the wild die when using a Force Point since it just seems uncinematic and a bit of a crock to fail when using a force point because of the wild die. So I guess that is a case where I agree with you.
Not trying to convince you my way is better. I know a lot of gamers don't like the wild die and I'm OK with that. I just find it adds to the up and down "we're winning, no wait we're losing" style that I see in both Star Wars and Indiana Jones. |
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Random Numbers
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:36 am Post subject: |
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With the wild die you will burn a force point only to have the wild die make it obsolete...
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Bren
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | | With the wild die you will burn a force point only to have the wild die make it obsolete... |
Sometimes. That's exactly why we house ruled that in general there are no bad wild die results when spending a Force Point. You just add the 1 in. Note that is the first option in the RAW for what to do with a wild die result of 1.
| SWRPG 2Ed R&E page 74 wrote: | * Add up the dice normally
* Total up the skill dice normally to see if the skill roll succeeded, but a "complication" occurs. (See "complications" below.)
* Subtract the one and also subtract the highest other die. |
By selecting appropriately among the three options in the RAW, I find the wild die works well for us, helps the game mimic the action in the movies, and sometimes adds extra fun and drama. Obviously, YMMV. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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In another thread I discussed using the Wild Die in a different manner, or that the wild die worked differently depending on wether the situation was critical or not.
-In a non critical situation the wild die is just a one.
-In a semi-critical situation the wild die is a 'complication'
-In a really critical situation the wild die always subtracts from the total(and you keep rolling if you roll a 6).
Simply put situations or actions/maneuvers have three different levels of how crititcal they are.
-Non critical - Parking your ship in a spacious hangar with little traffic.
-Slightly critical - Parking your ship in a crowded/busy hangar while having to 'fly casual' to avoid suspicion.
-Criticial - 'Parking' your ship flying in for touchdown in a single round with your power generator exploding any round now...
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | | ...And since we are playing Star Wars, that is how it should work in the RPG. No matter ow dumb it was. |
Well it was only really dumb because it was Ewoks. If it had been something big and strong like Wookiees I would have bought it. But the Ewoks were small, awkward, slow, and looked like teddy bears. Seeing them as able to take on stormtroopers twice their size, in armor, with blasters - just didn't buy it. It overly taxed my suspension of disbelief. It's like those TV shows and films in the late 90s and the 00s where they want a kick @$$ girl, but they make her tiny and petite. I have a hard time buying that. Now Lucy Lawless, she looked like if she threw a punch it would knock you down. Despite that, I like Buffy a lot, but she had magical slayer strength. Maybe thats what the Ewoks needed, that and some DEX. |
Orginally it was supposed to be Wookiees. And I might buy that. I7d certainly find it a lot easier to accept. I still think superior numbers and technology would be telling, but at least a Wookiee could hurt a Stormtrooper if it got close.
Unfortunaly, Stromtroopers look like incompetent idiots in the films. They are precise shots who can't hit anyone (other than the girl, twice); are elite shocktroops who are easily destracted and duped; and can kick the rebels butt but can't handle Ewoks. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | CPs do help moderate a 1 on the wild die. |
Which is kind of my issue with the Wild Die/ CP mechanism. Why have one mechanism that increases the risk of failure and then another to decrease it.
Why not cut both and save you some time..
We havent removed the Wild Die, but essentially its just 'open ended' both downwards and upwards, no complications. |
Cause to some of us, the added effect for heroics that those 2 give, outway the negatives of the 1...
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