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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16232
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Exactly. Unfortunately, the necessity of including all the required equipment really cuts down on the available space for other things, like four staterooms, each with its own attached bathroom.
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tetsuoh
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Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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It really seems to me that from not only an engineering point of view but also from an aesthetics one - that in order to maintain a decent amount of luxury (IE one that allows you to walk around your bed instead of crawl into a bunk, let alone having your own refresher.), that the baudo really couldn't be a 8 passenger vessel.
In order to keep the standard features and functions of a starship within the baudo's small and angular frame, and then to maintain that it can carry 8 passengers in the lap of luxury, as well as it's pilot.
I gotta say - its almost preposterous.
I loved the idea of a ship with heated micro pool, and a lounge.
And even if the 4 suites had to share a refresher that sounded like living it up.
Then issues came up (engine room) and a better suited image was found.
Now there is the idea of their merely having 4 suites - two masters that have their own refreshers, and two that share one with the crew, but there is still a nice central galley and lounges areas.
Now a new issue (Escape pod storage) has come up.
And the allotted space will need to to be shrunk further still if the ship is to be believed to be functional...
Its getting to the point of being almost ridiculous.
Now I can understand that there are different degrees of luxury, by definition of the term.
As such I have tried to simply maintain examples of what I myself would consider luxurious when faced with the idea of being aboard a submarine.
I also understand that WEG really didn't think about these issues as we do, as its supposed to a fantastic sci-fi adventure.
They simply wanted a ship that looked awesome on the outside and was fast, and somehow came to the conclusion that it would be neat for it to serve as a luxury yacht with accommodations for 8 passengers and a pilot.
That all said - 8 passengers - little excessive.
I had an idea though. I got it by going back to the idea of basing what I would consider luxurious were I on a sub.
Bunks aren't necessarily not luxurious, if they are spacious enough and comfortable, and the rest of the ship is accommodating enough.
With this idea in mind - 4 beds (2 bunks) could be alloted to one suite room attached to a lounge area and refresher.
This would cut the need for an entire extra suite, and allow that space to be converted to a larger lounge area, or toward ship functions.
I still believe the ship should realistically only be a 6 or even 4 passenger vessel, but thats another matter all together.
Whats your take's on the situation as it stands? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16232
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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While we are at it, there is an additional issue of a crew cabin for the 1 crew member.
As far as the 8 passengers, I agree. WEG has a well-deserved reputation for haphazard quality control, and I think this is yet another example. The original version of the Baudo was a modified version from the original GG6, published in 1990. WEG didn't give us "stock" stats until the release of Pirates and Privateers in 1997.
With only 4 passenger slots, it's far more likely that the ship could have a micro-pool or a lounge, and that these luxuries would be the first thing to go if the yacht were to be converted into a working transport. After all, paying passengers can turn a profit, so you would want to get rid of space that is not profitable (or expensive to maintain) first.
Based on the floorplan I posted, I have some ideas for distribution of available space, counting the need for engines, nine sleeping berths, escape pods and cargo space. However, I need to know exactly what you are looking for to simplify things.
-Do you want it stock or modified for cargo transport?
-Do you want it configured for 4 or 8 passengers?
-Do you want it to include a pool or lounge area?
I can do variations on all of the above based on what you want.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Even with 4 characters I wouldnt give the Baudo a pool or something. Given its speed I see the ship more as an expensive luxurious sports car than a comfortable luxurious RV of the space lanes. If you want that there is always the SoroSuub Luxury 2800. Only 5 meters longer (if you go by Starship Stats), but without that sleek design it looks like it could house 8 passengers. Even so, even the 50m Luxury 3000 with 10 passengers dont seem to have a pool.. 
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16232
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Even with 4 characters I wouldnt give the Baudo a pool or something. Given its speed I see the ship more as an expensive luxurious sports car than a comfortable luxurious RV of the space lanes. |
I agree. I've always figured the Baudo was the SW equivalent of a go-fast boat: long, sleek and powerful, built to travel at high speed over long distances and look cool while doing it. The problem is that, for the Gilded Lily to be a modified version of the Baudo, something had to be removed to make room for more cargo space. I agree that the Baudo doesn't plausibly have enough room for 8 passengers without cramming them in, but that means that something else had to get taken out. Whether it was a lounge or a hot tub, I don't know, but as a luxury vehicle, it is likely a room that could be designed to the users specifications. That means it could be a lounge, gambling room, etc. or it could be removed completely to make room for more cargo.
| Quote: | | If you want that there is always the SoroSuub Luxury 2800. Only 5 meters longer (if you go by Starship Stats), but without that sleek design it looks like it could house 8 passengers. Even so, even the 50m Luxury 3000 with 10 passengers dont seem to have a pool.. |
The Luxury 3000 (the Lady Luck's base design) has a small pool on the upper observation deck.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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tetsuoh
Captain
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
Based on the floorplan I posted, I have some ideas for distribution of available space, counting the need for engines, nine sleeping berths, escape pods and cargo space. However, I need to know exactly what you are looking for to simplify things.
-Do you want it stock or modified for cargo transport?
-Do you want it configured for 4 or 8 passengers?
-Do you want it to include a pool or lounge area?
I can do variations on all of the above based on what you want. |
You misunderstand - I am doing a floorplan myself based on the second image above - and the issues I talked about above are what I have experienced as I have attempted this. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14088
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| tetsuoh wrote: | It really seems to me that from not only an engineering point of view but also from an aesthetics one - that in order to maintain a decent amount of luxury (IE one that allows you to walk around your bed instead of crawl into a bunk, let alone having your own refresher.), that the baudo really couldn't be a 8 passenger vessel.
In order to keep the standard features and functions of a starship within the baudo's small and angular frame, and then to maintain that it can carry 8 passengers in the lap of luxury, as well as it's pilot.
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Perhaps 4 are sleeping while the other 4 are up.. like submarine crews do.
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Reaper63
Lieutenant
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 79
Location: Northern NJ, USA
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tetsuoh
Captain
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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This could be true, but the mere fact that your ship is seemingly the equivalent of a flying motel should mean that each passenger should be assigned their own bunk at least I would think. Now if they were crew - that is a different story.
Let me rephrase my previous statement to I think you misunderstand btw neill.
If your wondering what I was after to show me your ideas by changing your copy then, by all means, I don't want my statement to stop you.
I was merely trying to voice my concerns over the project earlier and was quite moody at the time of posting. I didn't want to offend, in case I have, I apologize.
I'm trying to floorplan out a "Stock" version capable of hauling 8 passengers in the lap of luxury. As is stated in the "Stock" description.
Whether this includes a pool or not is in question but there should definitely be at least a lounge area. One that is somewhat roomy I would think.
I state stock in quotations because by the canon for the ship from wookiepedia, the ship designer never makes them the same way twice.
- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Baudo-class_star_yacht -
Which is a boon to us floor planners as it allows personal opinion and vision to be in line with the canon description of the vessel.
Unfortunately that still doesn't help alleviate the fact that the vessel seemingly cannot meet my vision and retain its stock statistics.
A question - does it seem inappropriate for there to be three "tiers" of passenger cabin by way of Bunks,Suite, and Master Suite? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16232
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Reaper63 wrote: | | last thing I'd want to do on a Luxury ship is Hot Bunk. Not the best way to spend time lol |
Most definitely. If it were crew, I might understand it, with one crewman at the controls and another in the bunk, so that someone is always on duty (similar to sharing a semi-truck with a co-driver: someone is always behind the wheel). But with passengers, who are faced with long hours of down time with nothing to do, crawling into your bunk for a little boredom-induced nap time may be the only activity available to them, since they don't have official crew duties. A luxury bunk might even be equipped with an entertainment center of some kind, so that they could catch the latest holo-film in the privacy of their own bunk...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16232
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| tetsuoh wrote: | I'm trying to floorplan out a "Stock" version capable of hauling 8 passengers in the lap of luxury. As is stated in the "Stock" description.
Whether this includes a pool or not is in question but there should definitely be at least a lounge area. One that is somewhat roomy I would think. |
I didn't misunderstand you at all (and I'm the last one to take offense at an unintendedly harsh statement). You've mentioned that you are still working on a plan, and I have a pretty good idea for how to make it work. The key issue I am having here is that there are several ways that this floorplan could go, and while I am about 95% sure that I can help you plot out a floorplan in general, I still need a little information to work on.
I understand that you want a stock model that matches the "stock" stats, with 1 crew, 8 passengers, and 35 metric tons of cargo space, with at least a lounge area of some kind, and possibly a small hot tub, if the space can be found to accommodate it.
Of the available existing floorplans, you prefer the Deviant Art variation, except for the fact that it doesn't have the capacity to carry the 8 passengers of the stock version. Simple answer? It's not stock. The Specter variant appears modified to be a bounty hunter's ship, with a med-bay, armory, workshop and holding cell, and the reason there is room for all of this stuff is because the passenger spaces have been replaced. At most, the Specter variant has passenger space for 1 or 2, and that includes the holding cell.
There are a couple glaring issues with this deckplan, however. First, physically speaking, it doesn't do a very good job of taking scale or the third dimension into account. If you look closely at the two rooms placed in the dorsal bulges, you'll see that the rooms are actually further outboard than the bulges themselves. Also, I hope you aren't planning on keeping the holding cell in the engine room, because if a captive were able to break free of the holding cell, they would be perfectly positioned to wreak havoc on the ship.
As far as an engine room itself, I don't think a ship this size really needs one, apart from a dedicated room in which the engines are located, with cramped access spaces for maintenance and repairs and such. On the Millennium Falcon, the engineering console was in a completely different room (the lounge). In this case, I would suggest engineering being one of the extra consoles in the cockpit. As for the engine "room" itself, I have already made my case for twin engines, one in each of the dorsal bulges, and I don't see the need to rehash it.
By moving the engines out to the bulges, that gives you almost two full decks worth of room in the center space between the engines. Utility practically demands that the lower level be a cargo bay (as even stock, the ship has a 35 metric ton capacity, and cargo loading and unloading would be greatly simplified by the near-direct access to the ship's main ramp), but that leaves an upper level that can be configured however you wish. The way I see it, there are four options:
A). Stock "Suite" Variant - Put two smaller suites into the upper level (above the cargo bay), possibly sharing a fresher between them, with two suites forward, flanking the main lounge area.
B). Stock "Lounge" Variant - Use the upper level as a lounge, with gaming tables, a mini-bar, a hot tub, or whatever luxury area your character wishes. Move all the crew accommodations forward, with a quad-bunk suites (each with two double-bunk rooms flanking a small fresher in the middle) on either side of the central lounge area.
C). Stock "VIP" Variant - Combine the forward suites of Option A with the rear Lounge of Option B. Reduces passenger capacity to 4, but those 4 people travel in much greater luxury.
D). The Gilded Lily Cargo Transport Variant - Tear out the upper rear room entirely and use it for cargo storage. Passenger berths can be configured as you desire, with luxury suites, dorm suites or a mix of the two.
You can then mix and match however you wish, but space is most definitely limited. Unfortunately, the first casualties when allotting space in this floorplan will be the workshop, the med bay, the armory, etc. To have these included, you would have to sacrifice cargo space or passenger space.
| Quote: | | A question - does it seem inappropriate for there to be three "tiers" of passenger cabin by way of Bunks,Suite, and Master Suite? |
Not at all, although on a ship this size, you don't have a lot to mix and match with. I think I already described two different kinds of suites (quad-bunk and double-bunk) above, so it wouldn't be too hard to make a master suite (as double bunk, but with a normal bed and its own fresher).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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tetsuoh
Captain
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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alright well - I'm considering the twin engine thing but at the moment here is what I have so far.
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6033/baudoyacht2.jpg
(Edited to a slightly better copy)
You'll notice I have placed a crew quarters - with the possibility of a double bunk.
I have slightly rearranged the central corridor and am currently trying to figure out how I want the escape pod to be done.
I am still contemplating whether to go dbl engine or not. And as such have left the engine room as is with the exception of adding a work bench area, since I originally planned on keeping the engine room as is until hearing the twin engine argument. This is also why the containment cell is still present. It will be removed once I decide where to place the engine(s).
I have removed the medbay and restored the mid port Storage for the most part.
While it is true that the "bubbles" on the hull mean that he has placed on this floorplan are out too far from this design - I do not view it as incorrect, as in truth I recently modified these aft sections to their former curved design and they fall very close in line to their original placement on the line art.
If we are to embrace the twin engine design this in truth matters even less as there is no reason to believe the hull access and intake panel needs to be the size of the entire engine compartment.
Anyways - let me know what you think at the moment.
As I said above my current step in the project is finding a proper placement for the escape pod(s) and choosing whether to keep the engine room where it is.
I'm also wondering if it might be feasible to make two 3 bunk suites and a singular master suite.
I've asked it before but still do - to anyone else viewing this topic who hasn't posted - whats your take on bunks being used in luxury class vehicle? |
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the idea of a Yacht type ship to me indicates that the comfort is intended for the ship's owner & possibly a few guests they may have. I'm a fairly big guy at over 6'2" and I have trouble being comfortable in most situations. My feet hang over most beds that are less than king sized, so the idea of being in a bunk is not my idea of comfort or luxury.
Our real world boats make as much room for state rooms and comfort by building up, not just out. When I read the article for the ship on wookieepedia, it leads me to believe that each of these yachts is custom designed for the person who it's made. Why not just wave your hand and say that it has 2 decks. Give it an operations deck, and a guest deck. That way you get the area twice over to make sure your guests are nice and comfortable, and the ship maintains it's shape, it's just a little taller.
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tetsuoh
Captain
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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We could, but in all honesty that would be a different ship in my opinion. If I wanted to allow that I could simply allow the version of the ship that is 50 or so meters long with two levels - including a spa and speeder garage.
My goal at the moment is to attempt this as it stands, which is the 8 passengers in the space I have. I CAN do it - and do it well, just not well enough to afford the level of luxury I had originally envisioned.
Which does disappoint me a bit, But I'm getting over it. |
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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No problem, it was just a suggestion.
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