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Rules help with Omya Kaboom
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director_slayton
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Rules help with Omya Kaboom Reply with quote

Okay, I recently watched 2010's "The Expendables" with a couple of my players and one of them recently asked a serious question-since he's from a backwater planet that has alot of Earth-like Firearms including the player's own AA-12, he wanted to know if there was any chance of having the kind of rounds that Hale Casear uses in the movie for his AA-12. The exact quote is the following about said rounds:

Hale Caesar: [sitting across from Toll Road on a plane] You know what? I trust you. I want you to meet my girlfriend: [holding up shotgun shell for his AA-12] Omya Kaboom.

Toll Road: You lost me there.

Hale: When Omya's prime is struck, she give off a miniature warhead that arms itself. And when that happens, anything that gets in my lady's way becomes instant red sauce and Jell-O. And if that doesn't work... [holds up a razor with "Caesar" engraved on it] Her sister will.

Toll: You should meet my doctor.

Hale: Too late.

So since I like to spice things up for my players, I'm trying to honor his request so can anyone help Superior Sirs?
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some characters in my games will use micro concussion shells as ammo for slugthrowers. I'd give them 7D damage, falling off at 2D per meter blast radius. They would probably cost around 500 credits apiece, though, so a sustained fire fight with an automatic like an AA-12 could cost as much as a used starfighter.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus those warheads would more than likely have issues with getting fragged while being carried.
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Orion
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 7D explosion from a 12 gauge shell seems a bit excessive to me. A fist sized cube of Detonite is only worth 3D character scale damage and a 12 gauge shell is a lot smaller than that.

I'd do it something like this: An 8 gauge is 5D damage, since a 12 gauge is smaller we'll call it 4D, then I'd add 1D for the explosive, which put us back at 5D. I'd say the blast is intentionally delayed a fraction of a second so it's intended to go off inside the target.

To run this you would need 3 different color dice: 1 for the normal damage dice, 1 for the wild die and 1 for the explosive damage die. Roll all 5 dice. If the results on the normal damage plus the wild die are not enough to cause a wound, add the explosive damage die and run normally. If the dice without the explosive damage die cause a wound then roll an additional 1D, explosive damage die, and add it to the previous total, run normally.

The idea is based of the old adage of a firecracker with an open or closed hand. If you want more damage out of them add 2D instead of 1D to the damage dice when a wound results prior to the explosion. Alternately, instead of adding dice you could simply double (or triple) the result of the explosive damage die.

You could do something similar with armor if the explosion takes place between the armor and the body, either adding the 1D(or 2D) as before or simply just rule that the explosion is sufficient to heavily/severely damage the armor as it's not designed to absorb damage from that side. If it were me, and I wanted to go the add dice route with armor I would probably go with +1D for an explosion between the armor and body and a +2D for inside the body just to give them a different feel.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds almost like bolt shells from Warhammer 40k. IMSWU, that is one of the primary reasons projectile weapons are still in use is because of greater potential for customization, depending on the mission requirements.
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Orion
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never played 40k so I have no idea how bolt shells work in that game.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that idea orion. Similar to jury rigging, roll 1 or more additional wild dice representing the explosive nature of the shell.. If it causes a wound before the explosive goes off, then add 1d for it going off inside the target. if not, the explosive ricochets off the armor
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In WH40K, a bolt is a mass-reactive explosive tipped bullet that doesn't detonate until it is inside its target. This is just one possible shell variant that a projectile based weapon can use: homing or guided rounds, incendiary rounds, chemical delivery darts, homing tags, gas rounds, proximity detonated warheads, etc.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orion wrote:
A 7D explosion from a 12 gauge shell seems a bit excessive to me. A fist sized cube of Detonite is only worth 3D character scale damage and a 12 gauge shell is a lot smaller than that.

I'd do it something like this: An 8 gauge is 5D damage, since a 12 gauge is smaller we'll call it 4D, then I'd add 1D for the explosive, which put us back at 5D. I'd say the blast is intentionally delayed a fraction of a second so it's intended to go off inside the target.
Do as you like, but let me explain where I'm coming from. Detonite is a plastic high explosive. A micro concussion shell would be a miniaturized warhead with much greater potential power. Proton mini torpedos do 9D character scale, IIRC. A block of detonate the size of a normal proton torpedo might not have the punch to blow up a chicken walker. At 4D to 5D, you're not really doing much more damage than a shell of 000 buckshot.
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Orion
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I like that idea orion. Similar to jury rigging, roll 1 or more additional wild dice representing the explosive nature of the shell.. If it causes a wound before the explosive goes off, then add 1d for it going off inside the target. if not, the explosive ricochets off the armor
Two things: I didn't intend for the warhead dice to be wild, though you could make them so if you wish, however it could increase the deadliness of the round considerably; The explosion doesn't necessarily ricochet off, example: Shooting at an unarmored target with STR 3D+1, the target nets a total of 12 for soak, the shells normal damage dice and wild die total 14, difference of 2 which is a stunned result not a wound so the round didn't penetrate the body before it exploded, so you add in only the original warhead die which we'll say is a 4 netting a damage of 6 which is a wounded result. So in this case the explosion still ended up damaging the target, just not as much as it could have.

For an armor example: Using the above numbers if the target had 2D in armor and their total was say 7, 14 definately exceeds but the 7 reamaining don't cause a wound so the round goes off between the armor and target, and so using my suggestion of adding 1D for the situation, rolling it gets a 5. Adding that with the previous 4 to the remaining total of 7 gets you a 16 which is 4 above the targets soak and is again a wounded result. To do this you will need to use 2 different color dice for the soak roll: 1 for the normal STR and 1 for the armors bonus STR.

You could certainly do it the way you suggested, it's just not exactly what I was talking about.

Fallon Kell wrote:
Do as you like, but let me explain where I'm coming from. Detonite is a plastic high explosive. A micro concussion shell would be a miniaturized warhead with much greater potential power. Proton mini torpedos do 9D character scale, IIRC. A block of detonate the size of a normal proton torpedo might not have the punch to blow up a chicken walker. At 4D to 5D, you're not really doing much more damage than a shell of 000 buckshot.
I understood what you were implying. As for the torpedo, according to Gry's Weapons Stat book the Mini-Proton Torpedo does 6D(I think this should be 12D) character scale(or this should be starfighter scale) and it's a Backpack Mounted Launch Rack. To me it seems more like a LAW or other shoulder fired weapon than a firearm. As you said, do as you like, however I question the ability to miniaturize such a warhead to the extent of making it fit in a 12 gauge shell. BTW, 5D is what is listed as the 8 gauge's damage (also in the stat book) and I doubt they're using bird shot in it.

Edit:In looking at the mini proton torp, I think Gry has the scale wrong, he list's it as character but you use Starship Gunnery to fire it, that skill is by it's definition for starfighter scale weapons. BTW in looking back a my post Fallon, I see where you would think that I didn't understand what you were getting at.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orion wrote:
5D is what is listed as the 8 gauge's damage (also in the stat book) and I doubt they're using bird shot in it.

Edit:In looking at the mini proton torp, I think Gry has the scale wrong, he list's it as character but you use Starship Gunnery to fire it, that skill is by it's definition for starfighter scale weapons. BTW in looking back a my post Fallon, I see where you would think that I didn't understand what you were getting at.
It also has the same range as a normal proton torpedo. I can't find a definite scale one way or another... I certainly thought it was more than 6D character...

I was thinking you were saying that 5D was a good power level for an 8 gauge explosive round. I was saying 5D was a good power level for an 8 gauge firing lead, and an explosive round should do more.
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Orion
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fallon Kell wrote:
I was thinking you were saying that 5D was a good power level for an 8 gauge explosive round. I was saying 5D was a good power level for an 8 gauge firing lead, and an explosive round should do more.
5D is an 8 gauge, but since this is only for a 12 gauge I dropped the damage to 4D then added a minimum of 1D back as an explosion, this could easily be done to the 8 gauge as well. Depending on how deadly you want it to be, the outline, this was an off the top of my head idea, as it sits is for up to 3D total in explosive damage, which makes the round do from 5D-7D depending on where it explodes. In the case of your round, what bothers me is that it's an explosion that damages out to 4 meters from the detonation and 2 meters away is the same as being at ground zero when a cube of detonite explodes. That's a lot of explosive power coming from something the size of a 12 gauge shell.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orion wrote:
5D is an 8 gauge, but since this is only for a 12 gauge I dropped the damage to 4D then added a minimum of 1D back as an explosion, this could easily be done to the 8 gauge as well.
Okay. That's closer to what I was thinking; I misunderstood. Also, in regards to the size of an explosive slug, remember that a frag grenade's explosive core is roughly the same volume as a 12 gauge shell... You can pack a lotta kaboom into a small space with even today's technology.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fallon Kell wrote:
Orion wrote:
A 7D explosion from a 12 gauge shell seems a bit excessive to me. A fist sized cube of Detonite is only worth 3D character scale damage and a 12 gauge shell is a lot smaller than that.

I'd do it something like this: An 8 gauge is 5D damage, since a 12 gauge is smaller we'll call it 4D, then I'd add 1D for the explosive, which put us back at 5D. I'd say the blast is intentionally delayed a fraction of a second so it's intended to go off inside the target.
Do as you like, but let me explain where I'm coming from. Detonite is a plastic high explosive. A micro concussion shell would be a miniaturized warhead with much greater potential power. Proton mini torpedos do 9D character scale, IIRC. A block of detonate the size of a normal proton torpedo might not have the punch to blow up a chicken walker. At 4D to 5D, you're not really doing much more damage than a shell of 000 buckshot.


Maybe you are not, but by the books a shotgun (8 gauge) is only doing 5d damage.. And those mini protons are Back pack missile systems.. not something you load into a hand pistol/gun..
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Kira Firestorm
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay for any of you wondering how deadly the AA-12 shotgun is, it's a fully automatic shotgun with a drum magazine, limited recoil, and comes with a variety of ammo.
Frag-12
Frag-12 high explosive
Frag Heap rounds

so having it do 7D is actually about right with the standard round, watch it on Utube or Future Weapons if you like, it's deadly.
Another option would be to create rules for single/burst and full auto damage for it.
Just note that the HE round can penetrate a window then detonate killing everything in a normal room, and the HEAP round takes out armoured walls and then explodes.

Rules would differ maybe for single/burst/full auto, adding in difficulty but would also add to damage per increment.
Ofcourse blast radius would lower damage over scales.
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