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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14031
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Kehlin Yew wrote: | um guys... you are making everything way too literal... basing too much on what you know... and not enough about what it really is..
This is a made up world/universe.... it is what George, and the authors say...
really sorry if this steps on anyones toes, but you argue too much...
Its made up.. if the book says "A talented few, such as Tosh, can even communicate these ideas to other sentients." then... that certain race of rancor is sentient....
it says nothing about any of the other rancors in the universe... just that one species... |
That plus, how many others in the universe of SW know what a rancor IS?
Then how many of them know what planets have rancors on?
Then how many of those know which ones are sentient??
If the player can get past those arguments/questions, then he could possibily play a rancor from dathomir that was sentient. BUT he would still have to convince me on his story for how his character would
A) be free from the witches,
B) got off planet
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Loc Taal
Grand Master (Founder / Admin Emeritus)
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 801
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, I think this thread is an example of the type of discussion that I'd rather not get into here. Not Hellcat's original thread itself, but just where it ended up going. Threads like this don't serve any purpose other than to make people angry and frustrated. Thanks for bringing it back around to be on topic again.
Ok, that being said, I would not allow a player to make a Dathomirian Rancor character. They're just too rare and would need too much explanation to justify it. It would also make the character way too powerful. I think there should have been a note in the book that said something to the effect of "it is suggested that players not be able to play Dathomirian Rancor characters", as there are for a few of the other alien species.
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The original RANCOR PIT archive |
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KageRyu
Commodore
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, six pages, and it's degenerated to a complete argument while I was away. Proffessor Hellcat, if I may borrow your proffessor hat please...
The bulk of the argument seems to be based on a lack of clear definition of what is sentience. And while a definition was posted:
| Kehlin Yew wrote: |
From Www.Dictionary.com
sen·tient
adj.
1. Having sense perception; conscious: “The living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stage” (T.E. Lawrence).
2. Experiencing sensation or feeling. |
That definition is grossly abridged and misleading in the worst way (one of the many reasons I dislike online dictionaries). There seems to be a confusion in the thread as to sentience, sapience, and intelligence, and Dictionary.com only serves to feed that confusion as in it's boiled down and abridged definitions, all three mean almost the same thing. Fact is, in the scientific community at large they mean completely different things.
Intelligence - According to websters unabridged dictionary, Intelligence is the ability to learn and adapt to surroundings, develop rudimentary communication, and solve logical problems. Key word logical.
Sentience - According to Websters Unabridged Dictionary, sentience is defined by a number of qualities, including, but not exclusively limited too, self awareness, reasoning, and the ability to think in abstract and solve abstract problems as oposed to logical ones.
The key difference between Intelligence and Sentience is one involves logical and linear problem solving, while the other involves abstraction and reasoning beyond logic. Given this, and the fact that the Courtship Of Princess Leia clearly says the Dathomir Rancor has a slight pension for abstract thought it would be defined as sentient. Now, since it's actual cognitive powers are limited, it would not be considered very inteligent, and would most likely be seen as a dumb animal by most. Also, byt this definition, there are a growing number of Humanity that, while inteligent, would barely be considered sentient as they seem to lack the capacity for abstract thought or reasoning...and vice versa, there are many that would be sentient yet are not considered very inteligent as while they are aware of their existance, can not seem to master simple skills such as using a leave blower without injury. Further, their are a growing number of animal species that scientists are considering reclassifying as sentient, as they have demonstrated an awareness of their own existance. For these reasons, and so many others, the definition of sentience is always being reviewed and is, in the end, a judgement call.
As for the Dathomir Rancor: Is it sentient according to it's abilities described? Yes. Is it inteligent? Barely. Should it be a PC? Generally, I would say no, as the problems with allowing a PC rancor are immense, and would excessively unbalance the game, however as with all optional rules, it is the individual GM's call.
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Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1743
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Hey, Fluffy, are you a PC?
*Searching Reference on Datapad/Wristguard/Translator* "As am Visible Minority, am very Politically Correct."
That's not the PC I was refering to, Fluffy. |
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Boomer
Captain
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 688
Location: Terra Sol
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 3:19 am Post subject: |
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Vote Fluffy
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Argamoth
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd allow a Rancor as a PC in a non-serious campaign, or as a NPC that only shows up every once in a while. Note that a Rancoe would have lots of trouble in 'civilized' society and just about every where else. |
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Jedi Knight Jael Weiss
Ensign
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| Ray wrote: | Hey, Fluffy, are you a PC?
*Searching Reference on Datapad/Wristguard/Translator* "As am Visible Minority, am very Politically Correct."
That's not the PC I was refering to, Fluffy. |
That's one of the funnier lines I have seen on this whole forum.
It's beautiful! Keep up the great comedy, Ray!
Jael...
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Lord Aramus
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:37 am Post subject: |
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vote fluffy, eh?
I can see it now.
Fluffy for President in 2008! Complete with Richard Nixon V is for victory kung fu action grip!
I am seeing a party of rancors in my near future  can we say.... walkerfodder?
Bwahahahahahahaha.
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Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1743
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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*Watches Great Amounts Of Politicos Wandering Around* FLUFFY! What the hell did you stir up now?
*Fluffy Shows Up In Jogging Suit* "Am running!"
Great, who are these idiots?
"Am helping run! Am running all way to be President of Dathomir. FOUR MORE BEERS! FOUR MORE BEERS!"
Fluffy... Fluffy... Fluffy... Dothomir is a Monarchy. It's title is owned outright by the leader of the Witches of Dathomir.
"And?"
There's no President of the planet, Fluffy. No elections. No running for office.
"Can I still run?"
Yes, just not for office, AND as long as you *GET ALL THESE MORONS OUT OF MY SHIP!!!*
"OK." *ROARS: Everyone runs in terror*
It's too earily to start drinking... Where did you get the jogging suit, anyhow?
"Big, Tall, and Spikey Shop." |
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Hellcat
Grand Moff
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 11921
Location: New England
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:17 am Post subject: |
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 ROLF
Next post Ray makes Fluffy will be wearing a Thong to the beach and nothing else. And we all thought really fat guys wearing thongs was an ugly site .
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FLUFFY for President!!!!
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Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1743
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:22 am Post subject: |
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*On The Planet Bendeh-VII: The Beach Planet*
Dobson, I still can't believe that you were able to hijack those Juggernaughts, even with Fluffy's help! And the price the Republic gave us for them was a pittance, compared to their full price. For us, however, it's more than enough for some really good R&R TIME! Go, enjoy yourself!
*Watches a very buff Rodian walk by apparently naked save for a Captain Crunch hat. Then realizes that he's wearing a Speedo that's the same colour as his skin* Phew. That was close. I don't hear any screams, I wonder where...
"Hello!"
Oh damn, what do they have you wearing now, Fluffy?
*Turns around to see Fluffy in an extreamly conservative one-piece striped bathing suit, carrying a huge volleyball*
Fluffy? I was expecting... I don't know... A speedo or something!
"NO!!! Not wear that! EVIL! Was brought up to be *PROPER* Rancor!"
Fluffy... You walk around NAKED most of the time!
"Yes. But this not nudist or clothing optional beach. So must wear proper attire as Mommy told me to."
Ah... Ah... Ah... Just go play Volleyball with those Vaathkree over there. Just... GO!!!
"OK!" |
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Hellcat
Grand Moff
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 11921
Location: New England
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:48 am Post subject: |
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ROTFLMAO
God Ray, that's hilarious.
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FLUFFY for President!!!!
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Jedi Knight Jael Weiss
Ensign
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:49 am Post subject: |
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That's beautiful!
Jael...
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Hellcat
Grand Moff
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 11921
Location: New England
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:30 am Post subject: |
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Ok, what about Fluffy playing golf? If he's gonna run for president, he's sadly gotta play golf. Saw this old time style advertisement sign in the shape of a driver a few years back at a golf and ski shop that I swear had to be about eight to ten feet long which would be about 2.44 to 3.05 meters in length. Probably be way to small for a grown rancor like Flufy since I think if you stand a drive up parralel to your body with the head on the ground the top of the shaft should be a little below your chest. So Fluffy would propably looking at a club around 6 to 7 meters long. And a ball somewhere between the size of a soft ball and a soccer ball.
Also, what kind of a skill would that be.
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FLUFFY for President!!!!
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Lord Aramus
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 61
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