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TIE Bomber Modular Pod
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do both pods have engines? Just how much available space is there?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmanski wrote:
Do both pods have engines? Just how much available space is there?


The only thing switched out is the forward 2/3 of the port side. The pod is equipped with a frame designed to fit around the various pod modules, while the engines in the rear of both pods are permanently fitted to the fighter.

Stated cargo space on a TIE Shuttle is 15 metric tons, but a cargo pod could be larger...
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I'm working on this, I'm finding that the base stats for the Bomber aren't really accurate for what the WEG write-up says it can do. The WEG stats say it can only carry 16 Concussion Missiles; the WEG write up says it can carry a variety of payloads (including 16 Concussion Missiles, 12 Proton Torpedoes, 8 Heavy Proton Rockets, 6 Space Mines, 4 Proton Bombs or 64 Thermal Detonators), and the Incredible Cross-Sections book says it can mix or match some or all of those payloads at once (but gives no numbers as to what interchanges with what).

Has anyone done any work on this?
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes sense. I, too, have wondered (sparingly) what the mixes could look like.

Throw out some spitballs and let's argue about 'em.... Wink
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Corise Lucerne
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Supposedly there are two sections in the ordinance pod for the ordinance (A a Forward & a Main), which suggests that there are typically two different types of munitions carried. Wookieepedia labels the Main ordinance bay as a bomb bay (which matches the diagram) and states that the forward bay contains warhead launchers (Either concussion missiles or proton torpedoes). I have found one source that goes slightly deeper into the layout, but I'm unsure of its Level of canon, but it seems based off of whatever the Wookie article is based on...

Quote:
TIE bombers can carry eight concussion missiles or four proton torpedoes in the forward ordnance bay. The main ordnance bay can carry eight more concussion missiles, four additional proton torpedoes, eight proton bombs, six orbital mines, or sixty-four thermal detonators.

~ http://www.angelfire.com/nt/jediacademy/bomber.html
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our House rule discussed by our group concluded that we could extrapolate the cargo capacity of the "munitions pod" directly as the passenger capacity of the "shuttle pod" using the GG tramp freighters book, which states that in a regular light transport you translate 10 tons cargo capacity for 1 passenger at full listed consumables range for the ship.
For short range troop runs you can translate 1 ton per passenger, but that's with no facilities for extended stays aboard the ship, just really local journeys in an emergency or during a military operation.

So we discussed that for 5 tons per person you get pretty modest, uncomfortable, but livable berthing aboard a short range shuttle. Technically you could haul 15 passengers in a TIE shuttle so long as you can physically cram them into the pressurized passenger pod.
So the 15 ton cargo capacity of the bomber version translates directly to a short range fleet shuttlecraft with 3 passengers.
It's just passenger weight is partly in extra consumables, bombload weight is in warheads which is like a hard weight that doesn't diminish until you unload it. So performance reduced for the bomb pod and somewhat respectable for the shuttle version, especially with a custom hyperdrive fitted (mentioned in EU as occasional practise).

Also, according to published material (canon) the TIE/x prototypes like Darth Vaders TIE were based on a TIE shuttlecraft/bomber frame, rebuilt as a technology demonstrator for the future TIE-Interceptor mass produced fighter and handed over to specific ace pilots for service evaluation.

And here's why we spent so much time talking about the TIE bomber/fleet-shuttle starfighter frame. It's a good PC choice for someone like an Ex TIE Pilot template (defector), who can then rebuild it with enough starfighter engineering skill to become something very much like Darth Vader's TIE/x1, only custom fitted for personal taste.
The hyperdrive capability alone, specifically mentioned for TIE shuttles (which is specifically mentioned based on the TIE bomber), makes it a kinda cool PC starfighter if they happen to be specialised in piloting TIE types.


Oh and it's a single engine exhaust port on the pilot pod, beefed up for cooling as it always runs under heavy loading, with 3D thrust vectoring. It is the twin primary wing vanes which lead to the title of Twin Ion Engine, it's a single 3D vectoring port for them, described in detail by Lucas in the original screenplay novels. He described the shutterlike vanes in the exhaust port laid in two dimensions, which rotate in a third for instant manoeuvrability (a clinical description of 3D thrust vectoring). The name is Twin Ion Engine, but there's only one exhaust port for them, and by engines they mean wing vanes which are integral engine parts for the TIE, but to our culture we would refer to them as wings. They're really the engines, the TIE wings. The two engines. Power converter and heat exchanger with directional exhaust port is in the middle, but most area of the pod is dedicated to being the command module of the remarkably simple spacecraft, it's like the neurocentre, so the wings are the engines with no engine covers.

I do realize in some planviews have indicated the two red lights you see at the back of the wing struts in the films as being the twin engines. But if you watch the films and dismiss that, they're clearly navigational lights and Lucas clearly described the exhaust vanes in a single vectoring port at the centre of the back of the pilot/command module, in his early screenplay novel release of Star Wars, I had a copy in primary school and considered that canonical long before I ever heard of a SW RPG.
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wildfire
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
As I'm working on this, I'm finding that the base stats for the Bomber aren't really accurate for what the WEG write-up says it can do. The WEG stats say it can only carry 16 Concussion Missiles; the WEG write up says it can carry a variety of payloads (including 16 Concussion Missiles, 12 Proton Torpedoes, 8 Heavy Proton Rockets, 6 Space Mines, 4 Proton Bombs or 64 Thermal Detonators), and the Incredible Cross-Sections book says it can mix or match some or all of those payloads at once (but gives no numbers as to what interchanges with what).

Has anyone done any work on this?


this is what I've used before for the basic bomber.

eight bays each capable of holding one of the listed payloads

8 Variable Configuration Weapons Bays
Scale: Starfighter
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: Pilot
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 3D+2
each bay can be configured to carry one of the following:


2 short-range concussion missiles
Space Range: 1/3/7
Atmosphere Range: 50-100/300/700 m
Damage: 7D

1 concussion missile
Space Range: 1-2/7/15
Atmosphere Range: 100-200/700/1.5km
Damage: 7D

1 proton torpedo
Space Range: 1/3/7
Atmosphere Range: 50-100/300/700 m
Damage: 9D

2 proton bombs
Space Range: 1-2/7/15
Atmosphere Range: 100-200/700/1.5km
Damage: 9D
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corise's version seems to mirror the Incredible Cross-Sections version, where the forward section of the pod fires missiles through the port on the front of the pod, while the section behind it deploys bombs and mines via the bomb chute on the underside of the pod. Each section uses a rotary magazine, with the missile section using an ordnance loading arm to move missiles, torpedoes and rockets to the center of the pod and align them with the firing aperture, while the rotary magazine for the bombs aligns the bombs with the loading port for the bomb chute. However, my line of thought for a solution is more along the lines of wildfire's, using modular pods to switch out various weapons.

Also, based on the cross-section, the Bomber can carry a lot more than the WEG stats say they can. 16 Concussion Missiles is about right, but there appears to be room for a similar number of proton bombs, instead of the much smaller number allowed by WEG. It almost seems that the Cross-Section combined the proton bombs with the Freefall Thermal Detonators...

Something else of note on the Cross-Section is the inclusion of a EMP generator used to suppress enemy defenses. Might this be some combination of the Fire Control Jammer off the A-Wing and the Jamming Beam featured in the TIE Fighter game?
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Corise Lucerne
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's an EMP generator in SWTOR with the Galactic Starfighter expansion. Supposedly that EMP generator has several charges that allow the starfighter to make low-grade ion attacks across an entire area (no differentiation between friend or foe). It's primarily used to do things like clear minefields or destroy volleys of enemy missiles. If it's the same device, it sounds like it's used to protect the Tie Bomber from Anti-air defenses when making ground strikes (aside from what's already been mentioned).

I'd be pretty tempted to just include it as an option to the Imperial Beam Weapon module, since we don't seem to always see use in Tie Bombers in other media (if ever).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be more inclined to treat like the A-Wing Fire Control Jammer, but say that it only has Fire Arc: Front. That way, it can keep enemy defensive weapons from targeting it while it is on its bomb run.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, here is a list of the Mission Pods, as well as some notes on features and such...

Pods marked with a * are elongated pods that extend further forward than standard pods, usually out to 1 meter beyond the leading edge of the TIE's wings.

Bomber
-Use standard TIE Bomber Stats (whatever your personal version is). Officially, the TIE Bomber can carry 16 Concussion Missiles, 12 Proton Torpedoes, 8 Heavy Proton Rockets, 6 Space Mines, 4 Proton Bombs or 64 Thermal Detonators. I've also pulled the ordnance list for the TIE Fighter game and am considering stats for Magpulse Warheads and Space Bombs, but I'm not quite there yet.

Also, the standard TIE Bomber appears to feature both forward and ventral ordnance deployment methods. I'm considering dedicated versions of either pod (which can either fire ordnance through the forward port or drop it through the ventral bomb chute, but not both).

Shuttle
-Use standard TIE Shuttle Stats

Trainer
-Use standard TIE Bomber Stats for performance, but removes the Concussion Missile Launcher and replaces it with a second cockpit. Ship can be controlled as normal from either.

Cargo*
Use TIE Shuttle Stats, but replace passengers with a cargo pod with a front-loading hatch.
Cargo Capacity: 20 metric tons. Reduce Space by 1 for every 5 metric tons carried.

Boarding*
Use Bomber Stats, except for Passengers: 10, and replace the Concussion Missile Launcher with a Plasma Torch Boarding Device.

Rescue*
Use Bomber Stats, except for Passengers: 10. Pod is equipped with a universal airlock on the forward end, and uses drone-deployed tethers to recover ejected fighter pilots and ship crew in deep space.

Recovery
Use Bomber Stats, but replace Concussion Missile Launcher with Tractor Beam Projector (1-3/7/15, FC: 2D, Str: 2D)

Assault*
Use Bomber Stats, but replace Concussion Missile Launcher with heavy laser cannon and heavy ion cannon

Attack*
Use Bomber Stats, but replace Concussion Missile Launcher with 4-round Heavy Rocket Pod (short range and inflicts low-end Capital-Scale damage).

Minesweeper
Use Bomber Stats. Mounts sensitive passive sensors to detect mines, plus a sensor mask to disguise its sensor signature from detection by the mines. Once a mine is detected, the bomber deploys a drone that places a timed explosive charge in close proximity to the mine, then returns to the bomber. (NOTE: I'm not educated on the various techniques of naval minesweeping, so I'm open to suggestions).

Surveillance
Use Bomber Stats. Replaces Concussion Missile Launcher with a powerful sensor package. Generally used for more detailed sensor analysis of known targets.

Comm/Scan Relay*
Use Bomber Stats. Carries a powerful Comm/Scan package that allows a TIE Flight Controller to exercise control over a TIE group even if it is outside the range of the sensors of his base or ship (In game terms, any TIE within sensor range of the Comm/Scan Relay may add 1D to any piloting-related roll that round, based on commands relayed to him by Flight Control)

Electronic Warfare*
Mounts a powerful multi-spectrum jamming device that can be used to disrupt sensors, communications and/or fire control.


Still working on stats, but this is how far I've gotten.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are complete stats for a TIE Bomber equipped with a Modular Mission Pod, complete with all the various pod stats. As with the TIE Interceptor Mission Pod Variant, I went with the Thrawn-era idea of equipping the ship with shields, as the ship would seem to be of sufficiently high value to be worthy of added protection.

TIE Bomber
Craft: Sienar Fleet Systems’ TIE/sa
Type: Dedicated Light Space Bomber
Scale: Starfighter
Length: 7.8 meters
Skill: Starfighter Piloting: TIE Bomber
Crew: 1
Crew Skill:
Starship Gunnery 5D
Starfighter Piloting 4D
Starfighter Shields 4D
Sensors 4D
Consumables: 2 days
Cost: 150,000(new), 75,000(used)
Maneuverability: 0D
Space: 6
Atmosphere: 295; 850 kph
Hull: 4D+1
Shields: 1D
Sensors:
Passive: 20/0D
Scan: 35/1D
Search: 50/2D
Focus: 3/2D+2
Weapons:
2 Laser Cannon (Fire-Linked)
Fire Arc: Front
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 1-3/12/25
Atmosphere Range: 100-300/1.2/2.5 km
Damage: 5D

Modular Mission Pod (Use above stats except as indicated):
Notes:
-Removing one pod and installing another requires a Moderate Starfighter Repair roll, and takes 30+3D minutes. It also requires a crane and appropriate tools.
-The added Length on some pods is because the pods are long enough to extend beyond the leading edge of the ship's wing-panels.

BOMBER
Weapons:
Multi-Warhead Launcher
Fire Arc: Front
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Ammunition: 16 Concussion Missiles or 8 Proton Torpedoes, or 8 Space Bombs, or 8 Orbital Mines
All Other Stats: As per Ordnance Type

SHUTTLE
Shields: 2D
Passengers: 2
Cargo Capacity: 1 metric ton
Space: 8
Atmosphere: 365; 1,050 kph.

CARGO
Length: 8.5 meters
Cargo Capacity: 20 metric tons
Space: 8*
Atmosphere: 365; 1,050 kph.
*Space is reduced by 1 for every 10 metric tons of cargo carried.

BOARDING
Length: 8.5 meters
Passengers: 10
Weapons:
Plasma Torch Boarding Device
Fire Arc: Front
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Crew: 1 (normally one of the passengers. Controls are mounted next to the pod's nose door)
Fire Control: 0D (Base Difficulty: Very Easy)
Range: N/A (Contact)
Fire Rate: 1
Damage: 7D + 1/round
Notes: Roll damage once per round against the target's Hull-2D. If the torch scores a Lightly Damaged result, it has breached the hull. Once the hull is breached, the torch requires a full minute to cut a one-meter-wide by two-meter-tall hole. Once hole is fully cut, the extendable boarding collar requires three rounds to make an airtight seal.

RESCUE
Length: 8.5 meters
Passengers: 10
Special Equipment:
Universal Airlock (on the pod’s forward end)
EVA Droids (used to recover pilots or ship’s crew who have been ejected into space.)

RECOVERY
Weapons:
Tractor Beam Projector
Fire Arc: Front
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 1-2/5/10
Atmosphere Range: 100m-200m/500m/1km
Damage: 4D

ASSAULT
Length: 8.5 meters
Weapons:
1 Heavy Laser Cannon
Fire Arc: Front
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 1D
Space Range: 1-3/12/25
Atmosphere Range: 100m-300m/1.2km/2.5km
Damage: 7D
1 Heavy Ion Cannon
Fire Arc: Front
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 1D
Space Range: 1-3/7/16
Atmosphere Range: 100m-300m/700m/1.6km
Damage: 5D (Ionization)

ATTACK
Length: 8.5 meters
Weapons:
1 Heavy Rocket Launcher
Fire Arc: Front
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 1D
Space Range: 3-6/15/30
Atmosphere Range: 300m-600m/1.5km/3km
Damage: 12D
Ammo: 4

MINESWEEPER
Length: 8.5 meters
Weapons:
4 Light Ion Cannon (Fire-Linked)
Fire Arc: Front
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 4D
Space Range: 1-3/7/16
Atmosphere Range: 100m-300m/700m/1.6km
Damage: 4D (ionization)
Special Equipment:
Minesweeping Sensors (+2D to Sensors to Detect & Identify Mines and other Stealthy Targets)

COMM/SCAN RELAY
Length: 8.5 meters
Sensors:
Passive: 50/1D
Scan: 75/2D
Search: 100/3D
Focus: 4/4D
Special Equipment:
Flight Controller Remote Relay (+1D to any one Mechanical skill roll per round for any friendly pilot within Sensor Range)

SURVEILLANCE
Length: 8.5 meters
Sensors:
Passive: 60/1D
Scan: 80/2D
Search: 120/3D
Focus: 4/4D

ELECTRONIC WARFARE
Length: 8.5 meters
Sensors:
Passive: 30/1D
Scan: 60/2D
Search: 90/3D
Focus: 3/4D
Special Equipment:
Broad-Spectrum Jamming Array
Effect: Increases the Difficulty of Communications, Sensors (Identify only) and/or Fire Control, equal to the ship’s Active Sensor dice values (+2D if Jamming all around, +3D if Jamming a single Fire Arc and +4D if Jamming a single target)
Modifiers:
+1D if Jamming in one mode only (Communications, Sensors or Fire Control)
-1D if Jamming in All Three Modes at once (Communications, Sensors and Fire Control)
-2D if Jamming a Capital Ship
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much slower/less maneuverable would the Tie be with these pods on?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
How much slower/less maneuverable would the Tie be with these pods on?

Negligible. The basic idea is that the pods are close enough in mass that the TIE's performance is unaffected regardless of the pod installed. If anything, the Shuttle and Cargo variants would actually be faster, since they are essentially hollow. In fact, I think I will go back and change that now...
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I'm going to be reworking this to bring it more in line with my Starfighter Combat System, setting up the modular pod to fire weapons from the ordnance lists there, but there is one thing I'd like to get written down.

Shootingwomprats, this is for you, and for the write-up for TIE Fighter animated short.

SWARM
Weapons:
Swarm Missile Launcher
Fire Arc: Front
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Ammunition: 24 Concussion Missiles (generally fired in volleys of 8 ).
Description: This experimental pod has seen limited use with a few elite TIE Bomber units. When used in battle, it turns a TIE Bomber into a monstrously effective anti-starfighter platform. Loaded with passive homing Stalker Concussion Missiles, it consists of a ring of launch tubes circled a central processing core. Each missile locks onto a target, with the CPU coordinating by overriding duplicate lock-ons, or assigning multiple missiles to the same target. This occurs automatically; all the pilot has to do is select the appropriate setting from the fire control panel in the cockpit.

When activated, the swarm pod fires all eight missiles simultaneously, with the following fire patterns:
    8 targets, 1 missile each
    4 targets, 2 missiles each
    3 targets, 4 missiles to 1 target & 2 missiles each to the others
    2 targets, 4 missiles each
    1 target, 8 missiles each
Multiple missiles add the following bonus to Fire Control on all attack rolls:
    2 missiles = +1D
    4 missiles = +2D
    8 missiles = +3D


Stalker Concussion Missile
Lock-On Time: 1 standard action
Fire Control: 6D
Sensors: Passive 25/3D
Skill Equivalent: 4D (Starship Gunnery & Sensors)
Space Range: 1-5/12/25
Atmosphere Range: 100m-500m/1.2km/2.5km
Duration: 6 rounds (Once duration expires, the missile runs out of fuel and self-destructs)
Damage: 7D
Special: Because the Stalker does not require a Lock-On, it is a Very Difficult target to detect on Sensors or Visual Scanning. On a failed roll, the target is Surprised, and may not maneuver to avoid the missile.
Follow-Up Attack: On the first shot, treat the Stalker like a normal weapon. However, if the shot misses, compare the roll result to the following table:
    Missed By = Result
    <10 = Missile is still homing, and may attack as normal the following round
    10-20 = Missile has lost lock, but may roll to reacquire in the next round (using Sensors vs. the target's Piloting skill roll to evade reacquisition). If lock is reestablished, the missile may attack as normal in the following round. If the lock is lost, the missile's safety settings engage and it self destructs.
    21+ = Missile has lost lock and can not re-engage. Safety settings engage and the missile self destructs.

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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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