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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | So, if there are landing ramps, then I assume that this thing can land on a planet's surface. Otherwise, it can't really be a 'glorified assault shuttle' to begin with. |
I'm not sure if ships this size can truly land; I'm thinking more along the lines of "touching down", much as how an LST would beach itself to deploy armored vehicles directly to land. IMO, a landing ship like this would come into contact with the ground, but most of its weight would still be supported by its repulsorlifts, with any landing gear primarily for stability. IIRC, this technique is used by the Acclamator-Series Assault Ships.
| Quote: | | By the 'back bays', do you mean those open areas about halfway along the ship, just forward and to either side of the command tower? Are those landing platforms, with hangars forward and aft of it? |
That was my thinking. Much like how final generation LSTs had a bow ramp, a well deck and a landing deck, this ship could deploy shuttles from orbit (or as a vanguard force to secure a landing area), or land its troops directly, or both.
| Quote: | | Thinking more about this ship - I have to say that I really do like it a lot - I wonder if we, as the a group (engaged in the ISD and other projects), might put the pennies together to buy the $10 3d image. It would be awesome to get an orthographic to impose it against other ships. Of course, that might just be a distraction from our main mission. |
I wouldn't mind, but I'd have to wait until my next paycheck. The guy had a few sample images on the website that I downloaded this from, so I really have all I need for my purposes, but if its something you want to pursue, let me know.
As far as length, if you can get a lateral view, I made it the same length as a Nebulon B, even though it masses more.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:12 am Post subject: Re: Delta-Class Troop Transport |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | That done, did you infer from the ImpSB that the number of troops aboard a troop line (and thus the Evakmar and this troop transport) had to be a certain amount, and that's how you derived 4500 troops? I think it'd be good to add that to my talk page on Wookieepedia about this, thus strengthening the case that this Delta is not the DX-9 the original editor was looking for. |
The ImpSB offers no specifics on the Delta, but I would think any combination of ships in a standard Imperial Navy Troop Line would be capable of carrying two full Army Corps (~160,000 men, plus equipment). As such, a troop line composed of regiment-level troop ships would have to have at least 32 ships, assuming the various command and support elements could be fit into the extra space on the transports as opposed to needing a ship of their own. Conversely, the Delta DX-9 can't even carry a full platoon, so to transport two full army corps, you're looking at around ~2,700 ships, and that's just counting the men, not the heavy equipment.
The Far Orbit Project states that a Troop Line will be composed of two Strike Cruisers and two transports, either Evakmar-KDYs or Deltas, but this is in contradiction of the ImpSB's statement that there are multiple kinds of transports in addition to the Evakmar-KDY, of which the Delta is only one.
My decision to make the Delta a regiment level transport as opposed to a battlegroup or corps transport was mostly based off the impression I got from the Delta's limited description; when I read "shuttle", I tend to think it on the smaller side. As far as troop numbers, I just started with the idea that I wanted the ship to be able to transport units of a certain size, then looked up the numbers for a unit of that size in the ImpSB, tacked on a few hundred extra slots for additional units, then rounded up to the nearest large number.
The ImpSB description of an Assault Fleet details that it is tasked with supporting Army operations from corps level all the way down to the battalion level, and an Evakmar-KDY will be a gross waste of resources if deployed in support of a regimental or battalion level operation, so my theory is that troop lines will be composed of different sizes of transport ships (i.e. corps, battlegroup, regiment and possibly battalion) rather than exclusively fitted out with a single class of ship; such thinking would be in line with the Inperial Navy's mission detail doctrine.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Dromdarr_Alark
Commander
Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Posts: 426
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
That was my thinking. Much like how final generation LSTs had a bow ramp, a well deck and a landing deck, this ship could deploy shuttles from orbit (or as a vanguard force to secure a landing area), or land its troops directly, or both. |
Are you going to include the shuttle complement in the stats?
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Dromdarr_Alark
Commander
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Posts: 426
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Also, I like to think that there are massive sliding doors where those gaps are.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Dromdarr_Alark wrote: | | Are you going to include the shuttle complement in the stats? |
| Quote: | | Also, I like to think that there are massive sliding doors where those gaps are. |
I hadn't quite settled on that when I posted; I had originally thought of having the launch bays be covered by sliding bay doors in space, and only opening to deploy airspeeders like the LAAT/i (since this is a Clone Wars era ship). Of course, the weapon upgrade could've included the ability to use the launch bays in space.
If I were to settle on something, it would probably be a mix of Kappa and Nu Class shuttles, with maybe some TIE/gts for ground support and a barge or two for heavy lifting.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 809
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I hadn't quite settled on that when I posted; I had originally thought of having the launch bays be covered by sliding bay doors in space, and only opening to deploy airspeeders like the LAAT/i (since this is a Clone Wars era ship). Of course, the weapon upgrade could've included the ability to use the launch bays in space. |
Ever since starting the ISD project, I have started to prefer the idea of fully fleshing out ships before they're statted out. And by fully fleshing out ships, I mean having a good image to work with, and then essentially deckplanning them out - just to see what's plausible.
But that's just because I'm a bit OCD. I also realize that for most games you only need enough plausibility to suspend disbelief, and frequently that can be accomplished by not getting into too much detail.
At any rate, it'd be nice to be able to have a notion of how large those areas really are and to then see what size shuttle it could house. The LAATs don't seem too large, the way that Lambdas might be. |
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I'm not sure if ships this size can truly land; |
Well, Venators can land. There isn't a lot of reason in size alone why a ship couldn't land, in fact. We have buildings that are bigger here on earth. Skyscrapers don't collapse under their own weight, and imperial warships have hulls strong enough to survive massive nuclear detonations without serious damage. The shape is inconvenient, but if the ventral surface of the aft section were to be an extendable landing skid, it could work fine.
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Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | But that's just because I'm a bit OCD. I also realize that for most games you only need enough plausibility to suspend disbelief, and frequently that can be accomplished by not getting into too much detail. |
That's my take. I usually just need an image to work with. My OCD runs in different directions.
| Quote: | | At any rate, it'd be nice to be able to have a notion of how large those areas really are and to then see what size shuttle it could house. The LAATs don't seem too large, the way that Lambdas might be. |
That was part of why I went with Kappas. They can't carry as much as a Sentinel, but they don't have the vertical clearance issues.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Well, Venators can land. |
Again, I am distinguishing between landing and simply touching down. Where touching down is a ship coming into contact with the surface yet still supporting the majority of its mass on repulsorlifts, landing would be defined as landing on a planetary surface and shutting down its drives, resting its full weight on its landing gear.
I would not consider the scene in ROTS that shows a Venator in dock on Coruscant to be definitive proof that Venators can land, as the docks could easily include repulsorlift fields supporting the weight of the ship.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | Well, Venators can land. |
Again, I am distinguishing between landing and simply touching down. Where touching down is a ship coming into contact with the surface yet still supporting the majority of its mass on repulsorlifts, landing would be defined as landing on a planetary surface and shutting down its drives, resting its full weight on its landing gear.
I would not consider the scene in ROTS that shows a Venator in dock on Coruscant to be definitive proof that Venators can land, as the docks could easily include repulsorlift fields supporting the weight of the ship. |
The weight of the ship isn't great enough to be problematic, is what I'm saying. All that weight is distributed over a footprint the size of a small town. Modern skyscrapers have far more physically demanding structures.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:56 am Post subject: |
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I prefer my version, really. I don't mind ships coming into contact with the ground as part of a mission (such as troop deployment), or for smaller vessels like corvettes or the occasional frigate being able to land, but it just seems wrong to me for something of this size to be able to land in the sense of being able to touch down and rest their full weight on their landing gear and the planet's surface.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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UPDATE:
I decided to put the Concussion Missile Launchers back on the ship and reduce the damage from 9D to 6D, on the basis that the primary purpose of the missile launchers is fire support against ground targets during assault landings.
Also, I'm adding the following:
Capsule:
As the Empire's military build-up progressed, Rendili Stardrive used the Delta-Class' basic hull to build a variety of different support platforms for Imperial Army field deployments. The Delta-Class was particularly well suited to this task, as its specific combination of abilities allowed it to operate either from orbit or landed on a planet's surface. The various support models are generally held in reserve and deployed as needed, based on the Army's support projections for planned operations, or to provide a rapid response to existing operations when support requirements exceed expectations.
Models (Stats as original, except as noted)
Attack
Standard model (see original stats). Can transport any of the Imperial Army's existing regiment types, with room to spare. The troops can be deployed either by landing the ship on the planet, orin waves from orbit (using onboard small craft). This is the only model equipped with concussion missile launchers for fire support and forced assault landings.
Command & Control
This model replaces most of its onboard transport capability to serve as an mobile command center for Army Operations. Much of the ship's interior now consists of communications and computer processing systems used to maintain contact with and coordinate deployed field units.
Passengers: 200 (Battle Staff)
Cargo Capacity: 1,000 metric tons
Small Craft: 4 light shuttles, plus assorted airspeeders. Is also equipped with communication and reconnaissance satellites.
Bonus:
-Any commander coordinating a battle aboard the ship receives a +1D bonus to Command and Tactics.
-All on-board Communications rolls receive a +2D bonus.
Dock
This model converts most of its troop capacity into an enlarged hangar bay, while retaining the ability to transport a full battalion. This variant is commonly used to transport additional barges and dropships as part of a larger fleet, but it can also be used as an escort carrier, or as a transport for air assault units aboard combat airspeeders.
Passengers: 1,300 (1 Imperial Army Battalion, plus staff for small craft complement)
Cargo Capacity: 5,000 metric tons
Small Craft Complement: Varies, but can hold up to 12 landing barges, 24 troop shuttles, 4 squadrons of starfighters, 48 LAACs or other combat airspeeders, or any combination thereof.
Logistics
This model sacrifices all of its troop capacity in favor of increased cargo capacity, complete with an internal distribution coordination system and a variety of cargo transports, including space barges for orbital operations and speeder trucks for surface deployments.
Passengers: 500 (logistics staff)
Cargo Capacity: 100,000 metric tons
Small Craft Complement: 4 space barges, 8 shuttles
Medical
This model is converted into a medevac facility and a full hospital.
Passengers: 1200 (medical staff) & capacity for up to 2,000 patients.
Cargo Capacity: 2,000 metric tons
Small Craft Complement: 12 shuttles, plus assorted airspeeders and ground vehicles.
Support
This model is converted into a mobile repair facility for Army equipment, capable of performing everything from minor preventative maintenance to complete rebuilds of severely damaged vehicles.
Passengers: 1,500 (technical staff)
Cargo Capacity: 5,000 metric tons
Small Craft Complement: 12 recovery lifters, plus various ground vehicles.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 809
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Looks pretty awesome! |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | Looks pretty awesome! |
Glad you like. I went digging through some old hardcopy SW stats I have laying around and found a stat for something much like it. While I didn't entirely like the way the original stat went, the core of the idea had plenty of material to work with.
Here's another one:
Multi-Role
The Imperial Navy is required to support Army operations in a sector based on what is called the "1/4/16/64 Plan." The "64" part of that plan represents a requirement to support up to 64 missions of irregular duration at the battalion level or lower. The Navy has found it impractical to field full-up support ships for such small operations, so a new type of Delta-Class was introduced. It sacrifices roughly 75% of its troop capacity in favor of a small segment of the support options available on the other Delta-series ships, including additional cargo capacity, hangar deck space, and medical and technical support facilities. It also features a smaller version of the communications and surveillance systems found aboard the C&C variant. The result is a single vessel that can provide an Imperial Army battalion with transportation, fire support, and the full array of support services that would normally require a flotilla of other Delta-series ships. While this variant is the latest to be introduced, it has rapidly become one of the most popular with the Navy.
Passengers: 3000 (1 Army Battalion, plus support personnel)
Cargo Capacity: 30,000 metric tons
Small Craft: Various shuttles, barges, recovery lifters and other types.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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In honor of the repost that shootingwomprats just did for this stat over at Google+, I thought I might do a compiled stat here.
Delta-Class Troop Transport
Image
The Delta-Class Troop Transport began as a basic, unarmed general transport during the Clone Wars. During the rapid expansion of the Imperial military, the Delta was upgraded with a modest weapon system so that it could be deployed on its own against lightly defended targets. While old, slow and outdated, the Delta can carry any of the Imperial Army's current regiments with room to spare, and continues to serve in Assault Fleets across the galaxy as a utility transport, moving troop units from planet to planet in situations where a legion or corps level transport is unnecessary. The ship is equipped for atmospheric flight, and can deploy troops either via carried shuttle craft or directly by landing on the planet's surface.
As the Empire's military build-up progressed, Rendili Stardrive used the Delta-Class' basic hull to build a variety of different support platforms for Imperial Army field deployments. The Delta-Class ability to land on a planet's surface made it particularly well suited to this task, as it could offer versatile support in a variety of combat scenarios. The various support models are generally held in reserve and deployed as needed, based on the Army's support projections for planned operations, or to provide a rapid response to existing operations when support requirements exceed expectations.
Craft: Rendili Star Drive's Delta-Class
Type: Combat-Modified Troop Transport
Scale: Frigate (+10D)
Length: 300 meters
Skill: Capital Ship Piloting: Delta-Class Transport
Crew: 150 (50 @ +10)& 18 gunners
Crew Skill:
Astrogation 3D+2
Gunnery 4D
Piloting 4D+1
Shields 4D
Sensors 4D+1
Passengers: 4500 (troops)
Small Craft Complement:
-12-24 Landing or Utility Craft
Cargo Capacity: 15,000 metric tons
Consumables: 6 months
Hyperdrive Multiplier: x2
Hyperdrive Backup: x20
Nav Computer: Yes
Maneuverability: 1D
Space: 4 (2D)
Atmosphere: 280; 800 kmh
Hull: 3D
Shields: 2D
Sensors:
Passive: 20/0D
Scan: 40/1D
Search: 80/2D
Focus: 2/3D
Weapon Systems:
6 Dual Turbolaser Cannon
Fire Arc: 2 front/left, 2 front/right, 1 rear/left, 1 rear/right (+5 difficulty to fire into the Rear Arc, due to the placement of the ship's engines).
Crew: 2
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Range:
--Space: 2-10/25/50
--Orbital: 4km-20km/50km/100km
--Atmosphere: 200m-1km/2.5km/5km
Damage: 5D
6 Point Defense Cannon (Fire Separately)
Fire Arc: 1 Front, 2 Left, 2 Right, 1 Rear
Scale: Starship (+6D)
Crew: 1
Skill: Starship Gunnery
CANNON TYPES (Ships may have one or the other, or a mix of the two):Laser Cannon
Fire Control: 3D
Range:
--Space: 1-3/12/25
--Orbital: 2km-6km/24km/50km
--Atmosphere: 100m-300m/1.2km/2.5km
Damage: 4D
Dual Blaster Cannon
Fire Control: 2D
Range:
--Space: 1-5/10/17
--Atmosphere: 100m-500m/1km/1.7km
Rate of Fire: 2D Auto-Fire
Damage: 3D 4 Missile Launchers
Fire Arc: 1 Front, 1 Left, 1 Right, 1 Rear
Crew: 2
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Range:
--Space: 1-8/20/40
--Orbital: 2km-16km/20km/80km
--Atmosphere: 100m-800m/2km/4km
Rate of Fire: 1/2
Damage: 8D
Models: (Use Above Stats, except as noted)COMMAND & CONTROL
This model sacrifices most of its on-board transport capability to serve as an mobile command center for Army Operations. Much of the ship's interior now consists of communications and computer processing systems used to maintain contact with and coordinate deployed field units.
Passengers: 200 (Battle Staff)
Small Craft Complement: 4 light shuttles, plus assorted airspeeders. Is also equipped with communication and reconnaissance satellites.
Cargo Capacity: 1,000 metric tons
Weapons: Concussion Missile Launchers removed.
Bonus:
-Any commander coordinating a battle aboard the ship receives a +1D bonus to Command and Tactics.
-All on-board Communications rolls receive a +2D bonus.
DOCK
This model converts most of its troop capacity into an enlarged hangar bay, while retaining the ability to transport a full battalion. This variant is commonly used to transport additional barges and dropships as part of a larger fleet, but it can also be used as an escort carrier, or as a transport for air assault units aboard combat airspeeders.
Passengers: 1,300 (1 Imperial Army Battalion, plus staff for small craft complement)
Small Craft Complement: Varies, but can hold up to 12 landing barges, 24 troop shuttles, 4 squadrons of starfighters, 48 LAACs or other combat airspeeders, or any combination thereof.
Cargo Capacity: 5,000 metric tons
Weapons: Concussion Missile Launchers removed.
LOGISTICS
This model sacrifices all of its troop capacity in favor of increased cargo capacity, complete with an internal distribution coordination system and a variety of cargo transports, including space barges for orbital operations and speeder trucks for surface deployments.
Passengers: 500 (logistics staff)
Small Craft Complement: 4 space barges, 8 shuttles
Cargo Capacity: 100,000 metric tons
Weapons: Concussion Missile Launchers removed.
HOSPITAL
This model is converted into a medevac facility and a full hospital.
Passengers: 1200 (medical staff) & capacity for up to 2,000 patients.
Small Craft Complement: 12 shuttles, plus assorted airspeeders and ground vehicles.
Cargo Capacity: 2,000 metric tons
Weapons: Concussion Missile Launchers removed.
SUPPORT
This model is converted into a mobile repair facility for Army equipment, capable of performing everything from minor preventative maintenance to complete rebuilds of severely damaged vehicles.
Passengers: 1,500 (technical staff)
Small Craft Complement: 12 recovery lifters, plus various ground vehicles.
Cargo Capacity: 5,000 metric tons
Weapons: Concussion Missile Launchers removed.
MULTI-ROLE
The Imperial Navy is required to support Army operations in a sector based on what is called the "1/4/16/64 Plan." The "64" part of that plan represents a requirement to support up to 64 missions of irregular duration at the battalion level or lower. The Navy has found it impractical to field full-up support ships for such small operations, so a new type of Delta-Class was introduced. It sacrifices roughly 75% of its troop capacity in favor of a small segment of the support options available on the other Delta-series ships, including additional cargo capacity, hangar deck space, and medical and technical support facilities. It also features a smaller version of the communications and surveillance systems found aboard the C&C variant. The result is a single vessel that can provide an Imperial Army battalion with transportation, fire support, and the full array of support services that would normally require a flotilla of other Delta-series ships. While this variant is the latest to be introduced, it has rapidly become one of the most popular with the Navy.
Passengers: 3000 (1 Army Battalion, plus support personnel)
Small Craft Complement: Various shuttles, barges, recovery lifters and other types.
Cargo Capacity: 30,000 metric tons
Bonus:
-Any commander coordinating a battle aboard the ship receives a +1D bonus to Command and Tactics.
-All on-board Communications rolls receive a +1D bonus. House Rule Notes:COMMAND DIFFICULTY MODIFIER: +6
SHIELD & SHIELD CONTROL: 2D @ 1D
VELOCITY MODIFIER: 1D Flight
BATTERY DICE:Dual Turbolaser Cannon: 1D Front, 0D+2 Left, 0D+2 Right, 0D+1 Rear
Point Defense Cannon: 0D Front, 1D Left, 1D Right, 0D Rear
Missile Launchers: 0D Front, 0D Left, 0D Right, 0D Rear
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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