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Capital Ships in Atmosphere
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:34 pm    Post subject: Capital Ships in Atmosphere Reply with quote

By their stats, WEG wasn't too keen on allowing capital ships to operate within a planet's atmosphere, apart from the smaller ships and a few special exceptions. The prequels, in turn, blew that theory away by allowing even ships the size of the Venator to operate within a planet's atmosphere, even to land and take off again with some docking assistance. With that in mind, what ships on the WEG roster should, in your opinion be given an Atmosphere rating?
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Capital Ships in Atmosphere Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
.. wasn't too keen on allowing capital ships to operate within a planet's atmosphere ... the prequels blew that theory away. With that in mind, what ships on the WEG roster should, in your opinion be given an Atmosphere rating?


Just as a heads up, Star Wars Rebels, the two part tv movie "Spark of Rebellion" has an ISD I entering the atmosphere and heading towards Capital City on Lothal.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, and I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that...

Be that as it may, however, my question is more along the lines of where to draw the line. Should it just be warships, but none bigger than the ISD? Should it apply to all ships, including the commercial ones like container transports and luxury liners?
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
Yes, and I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that...


My thoughts are its Star Wars and with the technology available (shields, repulsor tech, as well anti-gravity and whatnot) it makes perfect sense they can enter the atmosphere. I would say there would have to be a maximum safe speed.

Minimal space speed 1 is 600 km//h or 210 move. This seems waaaaaay to fast for my liking. The problem arises in how long it should take for a ship of that size, and size should not be the limiting factor, structure and such should as well, to approach its destination.
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Wookieepedia, "The second ship, then known as the Executor II,[38] was completed shortly afterwards at Kuat, received its new name, and was hidden on Coruscant.[39]"

38.↑ Coruscant and the Core Worlds
39.↑ X-Wing: The Krytos Trap

This implies even Super SDs had atmospheric flight capability.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

However, the Krytos Trap specifically states that the Executor was forced to use a temporary repulsorlift array to lift itself to orbit, which it then jettisoned.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
Minimal space speed 1 is 600 km//h or 210 move. This seems waaaaaay to fast for my liking. The problem arises in how long it should take for a ship of that size, and size should not be the limiting factor, structure and such should as well, to approach its destination.

My solution to that problem is to apply scale modifiers to both maneuverability and acceleration. Basically, if a starfighter makes a turn, a capital ship is at -6D to perform the same maneuver, with the penalty decreasing by 1D per round. The pilot of the capital ship may wait until the penalty drops off completely, or he may try to force the turn with penalties still in effect. While not wholly realistic, it does at least simulate that a much larger ship will be much slower to turn and maneuver than a smaller, more nimble one.

As far as acceleration and deceleration, I ruled that a Capital Ship takes one additional round per 2D of scale difference to accelerate or decelerate. Basically, any capital ship trying to chase a starfighter would take three rounds to accelerate from cruising to full speed, or to decelerate to cautious.

Again, it's not wholly realistic, but it does a serviceable job representing the effect.
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you used 6D or hull whichever is larger for cap ships it would cover the really big ones too.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cynanbloodbane wrote:
If you used 6D or hull whichever is larger for cap ships it would cover the really big ones too.

Not sure what you mean...
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Thx1138
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think that if a ship the size of an imperial star destroyer was in an atmosphere I would think that the planets gravity would pull it down because of the sheer mass of the ship. The power necessary to keep flying would be impossible to calculate. That's why many capital ships are made in orbital dry docks because of there size
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
cynanbloodbane wrote:
If you used 6D or hull whichever is larger for cap ships it would cover the really big ones too.

Not sure what you mean...


Basically, if a starfighter makes a turn, a capital ship is at -6D or -hull D of capital ship whichever is larger to perform the same maneuver, with the penalty decreasing by 1D per round. The pilot of the capital ship may wait until the penalty drops off completely, or he may try to force the turn with penalties still in effect. While not wholly realistic, it does at least simulate that a much larger ship will be much slower to turn and maneuver than a smaller, more nimble one.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx1138 wrote:
I would think that if a ship the size of an imperial star destroyer was in an atmosphere I would think that the planets gravity would pull it down because of the sheer mass of the ship. The power necessary to keep flying would be impossible to calculate. That's why many capital ships are made in orbital dry docks because of there size

Well, if it has repulsorlifts, and those repulsorlifts are of sufficient strength to completely neutralize the pull of gravity on that vehicle, then the size of the ship won't really matter.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cynanbloodbane wrote:
crmcneill wrote:
cynanbloodbane wrote:
If you used 6D or hull whichever is larger for cap ships it would cover the really big ones too.

Not sure what you mean...


Basically, if a starfighter makes a turn, a capital ship is at -6D or -hull D of capital ship whichever is larger to perform the same maneuver, with the penalty decreasing by 1D per round. The pilot of the capital ship may wait until the penalty drops off completely, or he may try to force the turn with penalties still in effect. While not wholly realistic, it does at least simulate that a much larger ship will be much slower to turn and maneuver than a smaller, more nimble one.

Actually, I went a different route by separating Capital Ship into two Scale Categories: Capital Ship @ +10D and Dreadnought @ +14D (Starfighters are still at +6D). Using that method, most smaller ships will only suffer a -4D penalty (reducing by 1D per round the maneuver is delayed), while a larger vessel like a Star Destroyer would suffer a -8D penalty. Plus, they all have their Maneuverability dice still...
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, many novels mention a lot of instances of Bulk freighters docking planet side, so they should be able to go down, but i think the venerator was a one off trick of the early empire being in atmosphere. Of the bigger ships, i could see carracks, strike cruisers and maybe even nebulon bs.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to agree. If the fuel cell rules are any indicator, atmospheric operation draws a lot more power than space flight, basically 1 month of space requires the same energy as 1 hour of atmospheric flight. I don't know if that should be taken as fact, but it does give some idea. If it is the case, ships that are atmospheric capable would use that capability only when necessary due to fuel consumption...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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