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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:40 pm Post subject: Lost Moves |
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Under the Lost Moves damage rule, a ship in space loses -1 Move when it takes a Lost Move damage result. However, the vehicle damage chart uses the exact same language (-1 Move, accumulative). Since vehicles measure their movement speed differently, reducing a vehicle's Move by -1 would have a negligible effect compared to a starship.
I'm wondering if it is simpler to ignore actually subtracting the Move from the ship's speed and just apply the result from the Lost Moves chart. By which I mean, if a YT-1300 takes a Lost Move result, the ship can no longer fly at All-Out Speed, but its Space remains 4, rather than dropping to 3.
IMO, this actually simplifies things; the Vehicle Damage Chart would be much clearer, and ships with a Space of 3 or less would not be reduced to 0 Moves before they actually get to the point on the Lost Moves chart where they can't move at all.
Thoughts?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hey I also noticed this some time ago. I am wondering if perhaps use the the mechanical steps from cover but apply it to move it works the same:
1/4 move, limited to High Speed
1/2 move, limited to Cruising Speed
3/4 move, limited to Cautious Speed
Dead in water
Destroyed
In the case of "-2 Move" and such results make it two steps instead of whatnot. In when applying the modifier round fractions up.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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So, to clarify, are you talking about applying the Cover modifiers as fractional multipliers to the Base Speed?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | So, to clarify, are you talking about applying the Cover modifiers as fractional multipliers to the Base Speed? |
Correct. Further clarification, the fractional reduction would be to the base move speed.
Example: YT1300, base move 4 is moving at High Speed (x3), 8 movement. It is hit and lightly damage, result is -1 move. This would reduce the move to 3/4. 4 x 0.75 = 3. The ship continue to move at High Speed (x3) but is now reduced to a total move of 6 instead of 8. The ship is hit and this time results in -2 move. It is now at 1/4. 4 x 0.25 = 1. The captain continues to coax the most he can out of the damaged engine but must now move at Cautious Speed (1/2), 0.5.
If the ship is hit and results in -1 Move it would be dead in space, if a result of -2 Move the ship would be destroyed.
I wonder if this would better if the fractional multiplier was applied after the Move Speed multiplier.
Example: YT1300, base move 4 is moving at High Speed (x2), 8 movement. It is hit and lightly damage, result is -1 move. The captain continues you at High Speed the next round. Move 4x2 = 8 x 0.75 = 6. The ship is hit and this time results in -2 move. The captain can only move at cautious at this point. 4 x 0.5 = 2 x 0.25 = 0.5.
The original post I had was backwards btw and should have read:
0.75 base move, limited to high speed.
0.50 base move, limited to Cruising Speed.
0.25 base move, limited to Cautious speed.
Dead in water
Destroyed.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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I can't believe I'm about to say this to you, but... doesn't that seem a little crunchy?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:56 am Post subject: Re: Lost Moves |
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| crmcneill wrote: | Under the Lost Moves damage rule, a ship in space loses -1 Move when it takes a Lost Move damage result. However, the vehicle damage chart uses the exact same language (-1 Move, accumulative). Since vehicles measure their movement speed differently, reducing a vehicle's Move by -1 would have a negligible effect compared to a starship.
I'm wondering if it is simpler to ignore actually subtracting the Move from the ship's speed and just apply the result from the Lost Moves chart. By which I mean, if a YT-1300 takes a Lost Move result, the ship can no longer fly at All-Out Speed, but its Space remains 4, rather than dropping to 3.
IMO, this actually simplifies things; the Vehicle Damage Chart would be much clearer, and ships with a Space of 3 or less would not be reduced to 0 Moves before they actually get to the point on the Lost Moves chart where they can't move at all.
Thoughts? |
From all my reading on it, your ship (or vehicle) can make one of 4 grades of moves.. Cautious, cruise, full or all out. That is imo what the lost moves is in relation to, not the actual speed..
So your rule is just emphasizing what i already knew.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:24 am Post subject: Re: Lost Moves |
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| garhkal wrote: | From all my reading on it, your ship (or vehicle) can make one of 4 grades of moves.. Cautious, cruise, full or all out. That is imo what the lost moves is in relation to, not the actual speed..
So your rule is just emphasizing what i already knew. |
It's not my rule (this is the Official Rules section). The wording in the RAW is sufficiently vague that the -1 Move could be interpreted as both reducing the ship's Space by 1 and capping off what Speed it can go. Personally, I prefer your interpretation, that Space stays the same, but maximum Speed level is reduced.
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nuclearwookiee
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| I'm with garhkal, I don't think this is vague at all. The starship damage chart on p. 129 of 2d ed. R&E defines what the term Lost Moves means, and it unambiguously refers to the number of moves made in a round rather than a ship's or vehicle's speed. E.g., -1 Move means: "The ship can no longer move at all-out speed; it's limited to high speed." Similarly, the vehicle damage chart on p. 112 uses the same language, which immediately follows the damage chart. In other words, the -1 Move or -2 Move that appears in these damage charts are specifically defined terms; you don't just subtract two from anything you might casually refer to as a movement rating. It's the difference between saying -2 Move and -2 to Move. The former is a specifically defined term in its entirety; the second is a reduction to a specifically defined term (although note the word Move doesn't even appear in the starship entries). |
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jmanski
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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I never thought about it reducing the movement or space by 1. I thought it meant one less move, as in you could make at most 3 moves in that turn.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Re-reading the chart, I always understood it to be both, but I can certainly see why one would feel that each level is not so much a reduction of move but of movement speeds allowable. I suppose one could look at it similarly as Wounded-1 and Wounded-2. Yet another example of ambiguous writing.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed. I think I'll go with garhkal and nuclearwookiee's perspective.
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