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Revising Official Vehicle Stats
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CRMcNeill
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Just a quick update. I haven't forgotten about this, but I've been insanely busy fighting Darth Reality for the last three weeks.


That's a wonderful form of "I have been busy with life things". Bravo.

Cool
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:


I'd say that neither the M2 nor the Barrett are 'character scale'.

Yes, they can be carried by a person, and shot at a person...but they are primarily meant to shoot at vehicles..or people within the protection of vehicles or other structures.

The M82 is designated an 'Anti-materiel' rifle.

It is the descendant of the large caliber anti-tank rifles of WWII.

The M2 is almost always mounted ON a vehicle or in a static position...and again it is useful when fired at people...but not as useful as the lighter machineguns, which would be more 'character scale', but it has the ability to rip up light vehicles and penetrate armor.


I sat behind an?M2 for a year, and I would say that, assuming the propper mount is used, the weapon is certainly much more effective against personnel than a general purpose machine gun and/or LMG.

Now, we ran our SAWs and 240s with pistol grips so that they could be used fog dismounted patrols, but, with the back plate on the. 50, that gun was far more "pointable" than the 249/240.

Also, against non-armored vehicles, Id have no reservations about the 240's ability to shred one up. It would certainly take more shots on average to diable the vehcle than a .50 cal would, but I see no problem with it annihillating the crew inside, as well as shreding up drive belts and hoses and manifolds, etc, rendering the vehicle inoperable.

Call this an educated guess, but I believe the?M82's classification as anti-materiel is more for the sake of political correctness (Geneva convention, etc). In reality, fire superiority is a high priority.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...

I'm now getting into the aerial vehicles, which is going to be a bit larger than it is in the RAW. The reason for that is that I intend to vastly increase the altitude ranges for sail barges and certain types of skiffs. I don't have any specific canon or EU reference for this, but it combines a couple of my working theories on aerial repulsorlift vehicles with the recognition that skiffs and sail barges become much more versatile if they can reach 2-3 kilometers up. As it stands, something the size of a sail barge is useless in any sort of close terrain (city, forest/jungle, mountains, etc). Giving them higher altitude allows them to sail up and over obstacles instead.

I picture sail barges drifting through the skies of cities like Coruscant like blimps at a football game, or gun-decked sail barges hammering away at each other like a reborn age of sailing ships, but plying the skies instead of the seas. A flight ceiling of 10 meters is...okay...for a planet like Tatooine, with vast open spaces where there is nothing to run into, but turning them into ships of the sky opens up so many possibilities.

As far as skiffs, there would still be a mix of sky- and ground-skiffs. The sky-skiffs would be of the type used in ROTJ, with the large steering fins that extend below. Groundskiffs would come in passenger and cargo varieties, with the passenger version being the one seen in the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook, while the larger cargo versions would more like this:


BUT, I'm getting ahead of myself...

The last requested vehicle stat is the airspeeder. I've done a lot of thinking about the holes in WEG's theory of repulsorlift operations here and here. Based on the conclusions I have reached in those two topics, I am visualizing an airspeeder stat based on the following two premises:
    1). While airspeeders and landspeeders both use repulsorlifts to provide lift by pushing against the gravity pulling the vehicle downward, they use different methods of propulsion:

      Landspeeders generate a kinetic field based on tractor beam technology underneath their chassis, which effectively grabs the surface underneath the vehicle and pushes the landspeeder forward without physical contact. This necessitates staying near the ground; if the vehicle gets too high up, it loses velocity because the field is out of range of the ground.

      Airspeeders, on the other hand, use a separate gravitic impeller drive that generates a directional gravity field that provides thrust, moving the airspeeder forward. This allows them greater utility of movement, since they don't need to remain close to the ground, but can be hazardous at very low altitudes as the impeller drive (unlike the drive field on a landspeeder) does not provide any cushioning effect, and an airspeeder can easily crash if the pilot isn't careful.

    2). By the original description of the functioning of repulsorlifts, a repulsorlift can provide lift and movement at any point within six planetary diameters of an Earth-type planet like Alderaan. As such, the altitude limitation on an airspeeder is not determined by the power of its repulsorlifts (a basic understanding of gravity reveals that height above ground and distance from the center of a gravity well are not the same thing, and only the center of gravity matters to a repulsorlift), but by how well the vehicle's drive and environmental systems are adapted to conditions that become increasingly hazardous and hostile as altitude increases.

    For example, by this theory, an open cockpit airspeeder could theoretically fly up as high as 72,000 kilometers, high orbit, above and beyond the planet's protective radiation belts. However, long before it reaches that point, the vehicle and its passengers will be subjected to increasingly colder and colder temperatures, dropping atmospheric pressure (eventually to the point of vacuum), radiation, solar winds and other hazards of deep space. To survive at those altitudes, an airspeeder must be hardened against those environmental hazards, and the pilot and passengers must be similarly protected. Many airspeeders can and do operate up into low orbit space, with some even venturing beyond the planet's radiation belt into high orbit (though this requires starship-grade navigation shielding).

Bear in mind that both of these theories are the result of pre-existing discussions (see the two links above). As far as my SWU and my stats are concerned, they are in-universe fact, and I will not debate them here. If you wish to discuss either matter, please do so on the appropriate linked thread above. Any discussion of the matter in this thread will be ignored; this place is for the vehicles, not the theory that goes into them.

As an added warning, if there is one thing guaranteed to send my blood pressure to red-tinted vision levels, it is regurgitating the arguments on the nature and relationship between repulsorlifts and gravity fields.

It. Has. Already. Been. Covered.

Repeatedly.

Ad nauseum.

And then once more for good measure.

Read the ENTIRE thread about The Difference between Landspeeders and Airspeeders thoroughly, and only then, if you are absolutely sure you have a point that has not been previously covered, then you can comment and I will respond. Otherwise, you will be ignored. If you are lucky.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the sake of simplicity, I've decided to cap the altitude for airspeeders and cloud cars at around 200 kilometers, effectively up to the point where a planet's Van Allen radiation belts would begin. This would permit them to interact with ships in orbit (launch and recovery, combat, etc.) without having to assign them a Space value. I realize that real-world orbital velocities are far higher than the RAW's Atmosphere speeds (28,000 kph at a minimum to stay in orbit, which is 20x faster than the All-Out velocity even for cloud cars), but in a universe where gravity isn't a huge issue, we don't really know what minimal orbital velocity would be, or if there even is one.

As such, when airspeeders and cloud cars interact with starships and such in low orbit, just use their Atmosphere rating for comparative purposes only, and don't get hung up on absolute velocities (it'll just make your head hurt).

Anything that can go above and beyond 200 kilometers will require navigation shielding to protect it from particle and radiation damage, and will have a Space value, like the Paranji Orbit Jumper from the Black Fleet Crisis.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had originally called this an Airspeeder, but then, after some research, I decided to subdivide the Airspeeder class into two types, Airspeeders (with sealed and pressurized cockpits) and Airskimmers (with open-air cockpits)

T-13 Sport Airskimmer



Craft: Incom's T-13
Type: Sport Aircraft
Scale: Speeder (+4D)
Length: 3.5 meters
Skill: Airspeeder Operation: T-13
Crew: 1
Crew Skill: Varies Widely
Passengers: 1 (or an additional 50 kg. of Cargo)
Cargo Capacity: 30 kilograms
Cover: 1/2 (Unpressurized Cockpit)
Cost: 10,000 used (Not available new)
Maneuverability: 3D
Move: 225; 650 kph
Altitude Range: 12 kilometers
Body: 2D
Sensors:
Passive 2km/1D
Scan 4km/2D
Search 6km/3D
Focus 300m/4D
Capsule: The Incom T-13 is the predecessor to the much more popular T-14 Skyhopper, but remains a common site in the skies of thousands of worlds. While it is not useful for moving cargo, most owners use it as a pleasure craft.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:38 pm; edited 3 times in total
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


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Posts: 12052
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SkySedan Airspeeder



Craft: Nubian's G20 SkySedan-Class
Type: Light Passenger Aircraft
Scale: Speeder
Length: 4 meters
Skill: Airspeeder Operation: SkySedan
Crew: 1
Crew Skill: Varies widely
Passengers: 2 (or 50 kilograms cargo capacity per passenger)
Cargo Capacity: 50 kilograms
Cover: Full
Cost: 15,000 (new), 10,000 (used)
Maneuverability: 2D
Move: 122; 350 kph
Altitude Range: Ground Level to 50 kilometers
Body: 2D+2
Sensors:
Passive 2km/0D
Scan 4km/1D
Search 6km/2D
Focus 300m/3D
Capsule: Another common site in skies across the galaxy, the G20 SkySedan is a more sedate passenger vehicle than the T13. While it lacks the maneuverability of its sportier counterpart, it can carry more and is more durable. In addition, while the T13 suffers from altitude restrictions due to its open cockpit, the SkySedan's hardened and shielded systems (combined with its fully sealed interior) allow the SkySedan to reach low orbit altitudes.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
So...

I'm now getting into the aerial vehicles, which is going to be a bit larger than it is in the RAW. The reason for that is that I intend to vastly increase the altitude ranges for sail barges and certain types of skiffs. I don't have any specific canon or EU reference for this, but it combines a couple of my working theories on aerial repulsorlift vehicles with the recognition that skiffs and sail barges become much more versatile if they can reach 2-3 kilometers up. As it stands, something the size of a sail barge is useless in any sort of close terrain (city, forest/jungle, mountains, etc). Giving them higher altitude allows them to sail up and over obstacles instead.


Well so far the Only canon example we even Have of sail barges is the Hutt one Jabba had in RotJ, which does show their limited ceiling....
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Well so far the Only canon example we even Have of sail barges is the Hutt one Jabba had in RotJ, which does show their limited ceiling....

What it actually shows is a sail barge operating close to the ground, under a specific set of circumstances. If you are basing your argument solely on what you see in the films, you must also believe (for example) that there are no bathrooms anywhere in the SWU, as no one is ever seen to use them.

Consider this: if you had never seen nor heard of an airplane, and all you had to go on was a short video showing a Cessna taxiing at an airport, would it be logical to conclude that the Cessna could not fly, and was merely an exceptionally cumbersome and useless ground vehicle? Or, since we're talking about something relatively large, perhaps a mid-sized airliner instead of a Cessna?

Here's an alternative perspective:
    Jabba's sail barge is capable of operating as high as 3-4 kilometers off the ground, however the ever-security conscious Jabba is wary of assassination attempts, and so operates the craft only at low levels on the Dune Seas of Tatooine, using surface clutter to hide his sail barge from unfriendly sensors.

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Thu May 19, 2016 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good sir,

Whence cometh this artwork depicting thine latest submissions?
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.

.


Last edited by Zarn on Mon May 13, 2019 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Good sir,

Whence cometh this artwork depicting thine latest submissions?

These are actually pulled from concept art that was published for airspeeders in the Repulsorlift Vehicles chapter of the Star Wars Sourcebook. I just pulled the ones I liked and gen'ed up stats to go with them.

I'm still not sure about the altitude rules for open cockpit speeders, but I think the basic concept is sound.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the altitude thing is something we just "accept" as part of Star Wars... As well as the speeds at which open-topped speeders operate. Ever stuck you head out the car window at 40 mph?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
I think the altitude thing is something we just "accept" as part of Star Wars... As well as the speeds at which open-topped speeders operate. Ever stuck you head out the car window at 40 mph?

Funny; you never struck me as the accepting type. Wink
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Well so far the Only canon example we even Have of sail barges is the Hutt one Jabba had in RotJ, which does show their limited ceiling....

What it actually shows is a sail barge operating close to the ground, under a specific set of circumstances. If you are basing your argument solely on what you see in the films, you must also believe (for example) that there are no bathrooms anywhere in the SWU, as no one is ever seen to use them.


You seem to be the one who loves basing updates to stuff to mirror more what it shows in canon, whether its cartoons, comics, or the films. Now you are wanting to ignore all that, just for your own ends?
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.

.


Last edited by Zarn on Mon May 13, 2019 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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