Revising Official Vehicle Stats

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

Effects of High Altitude on Vehicles
An aircraft's altitude range is a baseline for the limits of normal operation. This altitude can be exceeded for short periods of time, but this takes its toll on the vehicle.

In game terms, an airspeeder can exceed its altitude range value by 50%, but must make a Body roll every hour, beginning at Very Easy Difficulty and increasing by one level per hour.

Likewise, an airspeeder can exceed its altitude range by 51-100%, but must make a Body roll every 10 minutes, beginning at Very Easy Difficulty and increasing by one level per 10 minutes.

An airspeeder that exceeds its altitude range by more than 100% must make a Body roll every Round, beginning at Very Easy Difficulty and increasing by one level per round.

If the vehicle fails the roll by 1-10 points, it is suffering strain, and must "rest" (landed and shut down) for twice as long as it exceeded its altitude range.

If the roll fails by 11 or more points, the vehicle has suffered a mechanical failure, which requires a Moderate Repair roll and one hour's work. This can be problematic when it happens several kilometers above ground.


Effects of High Altitude on Passengers & Crew:

The following conditions obtain at varying altitudes within the atmosphere of an Earth-type planet, mostly applicable to aircraft with unpressurized cockpits:

<2 kilometers = Normal (Temperate Type I). No special equipment required.

2-3 kilometers = Strenuous (Cool Temperature)

3-4 kilometers = Hazardous (Cool Temperatures and Type II Atmosphere)

4-16 kilometers = Hostile (Cold Temperatures and Type III Atmosphere)

16-50 kilometers = Very Hostile* (Frigid Temperatures and Type IV Atmosphere)

50-250 kilometers = Lethal (Extreme Cold and Vacuum)

Some methods are available for vehicles to counter the Atmospheric conditions:

Warm Clothing = Moves Temperature up by 1 Step
Vehicle Heaters = Moves Temperature up by 1 Step
Breath Mask = Negates II and III Atmospheres
Pressure Suit = Negates Type IV Atmosphere

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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[MrNexx]

So, thinking about why there's an altitude limit... what if it was simply the strength of the repulsor field, with speed being controlled by a different drive?

So, you go with Luke's Landspeeder. Its repulsor field will give you a usual altitude of about half a meter, and might be able to handle 2-3m without too much trouble. It is actually propelled by the three turbines mounted on the nacelles... essentially, it's an exotic ACV. It's a cheaper way to do it, and the altitude limitations aren't that big of a problem most of the time.

Actual airspeeders have a more powerful (and nuanced) repulsor drive, letting them get a lot higher in altitude, and many could, in theory, go to orbit, but aren't built for that in other ways.

That leads to our final category, actual spaceships. They have a repulsor drive similar to the airspeeder, which provides a lot of their airborne manueverability (though they might use a dribble from their drive for propulsion). They can use the repulsor drive to achieve orbit, and have the shields and life support to survive up there.

When viewed this way, the difference becomes one of economics. Landspeeders and low-altitude bikes exist because they're cheaper alternatives to airspeeders. Airspeeders have pretty much the same propulsion technology of (non-hyperdrive) spacecraft, but don't include the shields or life support that they'd need outside of the atmosphere (maybe able to handle brief insertions into LBO).
_________________
"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/

[CRMcNeill]

Okay... (deep breath)

You just stumbled into this for the first time, so I'm going to answer, but I'm only going to say this once. The central premise of the functioning of repulsorlifts, as described in the novel for ANH, is this:

Repulsorlifts push against an object's gravity field, not the physical object itself.

As such, how high a repulsorlift-equipped vehicle can get off the ground is not a function of how much power it needs push further away from the ground, but rather, whether it had enough power to lift the vehicle's entire mass off the ground in the first place (in effect, rendering that mass weightless).

Once the vehicle's weight is negated by the repulsorlift's counter-gravity effect, changing altitude is child's play. Even assuming it takes 80 or 90% of a repulsorlift's power to neutralize the vehicle's full weight, turning it up the extra 10% will actually make the craft buoyant, causing it to move up, away from the ground all on its own, with the only upward limit being the point where the repulsorlifts no longer have sufficient gravity field to push against (an essential requirement, also per the ANH novel), which is about 72,000 kilometers up, or six planetary diameters (again, per the ANH novel).

Based on the above, the idea that an anti-gravity device pushes against the ground just doesn't hold water.

As such, my alternate theory is been that the difference between landspeeders and airspeeders is that, while both use repulsorlifts to produce lift (by neutralizing the vehicle's weight), landspeeders use a drive system that requires them to stay near the ground, while airspeeders do not.

As such, your suggestion of basing landspeeder altitudes on power availability is right, but for the wrong reasons. The power issue is not connected to the repulsorlifts (which demonstrate they have enough power already by the simple expedient of being able to lift the vehicle off the ground in the first place and keep it there), but to the tractor-beam-tech based drive field underneath the vehicle that must grip the ground to push/pull the vehicle forward. The higher up the vehicle goes, the stronger the drive field must be to continue exerting force against something that is further away.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[MrNexx]

Gotcha. However, I will go to the mat a bit on different propulsion systems, as well as shielding and life support (the last part I don't think needs defense)

If you've got a Repulsorlift providing your lift, you don't necessarily need to be using the traction drive for propulsion. So something like the landspeeder might be using a traction drive that's distance limited, but it seems unreasonable that absolutely everything would... swoops are supposed to be a repulsorlift mated to an ion engine and given a seat, after all. They might have traction drives for certain purposes (braking near a surface would be enhanced by a traction drive), and that might even be part of the repulsorlift engine itself... a different application of the general antigravity principles.
_________________
"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/

[CRMcNeill]

[MrNexx]

[garhkal]

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

[MrNexx]

Groovy, looks like we're largely on the same page. Gamist in the streets, simulationist in the (design) sheets.
_________________
"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/

[CRMcNeill]

Okay, so based on this, I've added rules above to the effects of altitude on passengers as well as vehicles.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[CRMcNeill]

So, in the interests of stirring up another $h!t storm, here is my take on the Cloud Car.

Storm IV-Class Combat Cloud Car

The Storm IV Twin-Pod Cloud Car is an atmospheric patrol and combat vehicle that was originally designed for high-altitude operation on the gas giant of Bespin. While other cloud cars are designed for light passenger transport applications, the Storm IV was designed from the outset as a combatant. Capable of operating up to low orbit, the Storm IV's respectable armament and high speed make it a formidable opponent for starfighters, even though it lacks a starfighter's versatility and mobility. The ship's two-man crew shares duties, with the pilot flying the ship and operating the laser cannon while the co-pilot handles the sensors and concussion missile launchers, as well as acting as a spotter for the pilot.

Craft: Bespin Motors' Storm IV-Class
Type: Atmospheric Patrol & Combat Vehicle
Scale: Starship (+6D)
Length: 7 meters
Skill: Airspeeder Operation: Storm IV
Crew: 2 (1 @ +10)
Crew Skill:
Sensors 4D
Starship Gunnery 4D
Airspeeder Operation 4D
Cargo Capacity: 10 kilograms (.25 cubic meters)
Cover: Full (Pressurized Cockpit)
Cost: 75,000 credits new, 28,000 used
Maneuverability: 3D+2
Move: 520; 1,500 kph (8D)
Altitude Range: 10 meters to 200 kilometers
Body: 3D
Sensors:
Passive 10/1D
Scan 35/2D+1
Search 60/3D+1
Focus 3/4D
Weapons:
2 Laser Cannon (Fire-Linked)
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: 1 (pilot)
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Range: 1-3/12/25
Damage: 5D
2 Light Warhead Launchers (Fire-Linked)
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: 1 (co-pilot)
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Rate of Fire: 1
All Other Stats vary by Warhead Type
Ammo: 4 missiles per launcher. May select Light Missiles & Rockets from this list, depending on Availability.

House Rule Notes:

VELOCITY MODIFIER: 4D Flight (Atmosphere only)

What I Changed, and Why:

Scale: Strictly by size, the Storm IV is comparable to other starfighters in the films (and is actually larger than the TIE). While WEG made it the same basic scale for 1E, they pretty much emasculated it with the transition to 2E. The closest we see the Storm IV get to an actual combat scene is when they intercept the Falcon at Bespin and fire across its bow. While Han's plan wasn't to fight his way through them, the WEG 2E stats would render the cloud cars completely ineffective against a craft like the Falcon, and not every starship the cloud cars intercept would be so inclined to play nice. As such, they need to be formidable enough to take on likely opponents. That means bumping them up to the same scale as likely opponents.

Laser Cannon: This is tied in with my uniform weapon range concept, as well as the visual distinction between blaster fire and laser fire. Based on what we see in the films, the Storm IV is equipped with lasers, not blasters.

Concussion Missile Launchers: This began more as personal preference than anything else. I'm pushing to add at least some ordnance capacity to most starfighters as part of my Advanced Starfighter Combat system, and the Storm IV's relative bulk compared to things like the TIE Fighter, while also lacking things like a hyperdrive or particle shields, theoretically made it possible for other things to be included. And then, while researching for this stat, I found out that the Storm IV used in Star Wars Battlefront had laser cannon and rockets. That was all the proof I needed. YMMV.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[jmanski]

I don't mind so much. I always thought the cloud cars were unfairly weak (and unusable).
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Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?