The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

My Auto-Fire Rules (the Final Version)
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> House Rules -> My Auto-Fire Rules (the Final Version) Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12052
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: My Auto-Fire Rules (the Final Version) Reply with quote

So, this has been evolving over time in various topics, but I don't think I've ever written it down in a topic of its own.

This is a unified Auto-Fire rule for various automatic (repeater) weapons in the SWU, ranging from assault-type personal weapons capable of selecting between a single round or a short burst (3-4 rounds) all the way to extremely high RoF weaponry like gatling guns.

Note that, in the real world, the 3-round burst mode was the result of extensive testing which revealed that, after the 3rd shot in a burst, accuracy dropped off precipitously, and any shot after the 3rd was likely going over the top of the target due to weapon kick. In my universe, I've gone with a 4-round burst instead of 3 because of how it squares with my Coordination bonus system, then explained it by saying that it is the result of either different physical limits (for blasters, where the fire rate is limited by the cool-and-reset capacity of the blaster's firing chamber) or improved technology (for firearms, where added stability and recoil-damping improves accuracy).


Weapons will have different ratings by class:
    -A military blaster (the SWU equivalent of the modern assault rifle) will have an (optional) Auto-Fire rating of 1D. In essence, the shooter may fire either a single round or a short burst, where each short burst is treated as a single shot for MAP and Rate of Fire purposes, apart from increased ammo consumption.

    -A full Repeater (Riot Guns, Repeating Blasters, etc), will have an Auto-Fire rating of 3D, but may choose to use less than the full rating at a time. The options are:
      3D Auto-Fire: Fire Rate of 1, and expends 100 shots.
      2D Auto-Fire: Fire Rate of 3, and expends 20 shots
      1D Auto-Fire: standard Fire Rate, and expends 4 shots.

    -A super Repeater (Gatling weaponry and the like), will have an Auto-Fire rating of 4D, but may choose to use less than the full rating at a time. The options are:
      4D Auto-Fire: Fire Rate of 1, and expends 500 shots.
      3D Auto-Fire: Fire Rate of 3, and expends 100 shots
      2D Auto-Fire: Standard Fire Rate, and expends 20 shots

Auto-Fire Dice are applied as follows:
    Weapons with a 1D rating may apply their Auto-Fire dice to either Damage or Fire Control, subject to the following restrictions:
      Long and Medium Range - Fire Control only

    Weapons with a 3D rating may apply their Auto-Fire dice to either Damage or Fire Control, subject to the following restrictions:
      Long Range - Fire Control only.
      Medium Range - Maximum of 1D to Damage
      Short Range - Maximum of 2D to Damage
      Point Blank - No restrictions.

    Weapons with a 4D rating may apply their Auto-Fire dice to either Damage or Fire Control, subject to the following restrictions:
      Long Range -Maximum of 1D to Damage
      Medium Range - Maximum of 2D to Damage
      Short Range - Maximum of 3D to Damage
      Point Blank - No restrictions.

    Auto-Fire dice can not be applied to Damage when attacking targets of a higher scale, but can still increase damage via accuracy when using the RoE Optional Damage rules.

EDIT:When firing longer bursts, characters suffer from additional MAP penalties if they attempt to do anything other than fire their weapon. The penalty is equal to the amount of Auto-Fire Dice the character is using -1D. For example, a character firing a Medium Burst (equal to 2D Auto-Fire) and attempting to Dodge at the same time suffers a -2D MAP penalty instead of just -1D; -1D for the standard MAP, plus an additional -1D for the added difficulty of trying to fire a longer burst.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Methedor
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 110
Location: Zeltros

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the unified post. I usually enjoy Homebrew and such. With that in mind I do have a question. How does this apply to the idea of spraying in area or would that just be MAP with the Auto-fire dice set to Fire Control Mode?

Thank you for reading and responding.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12052
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Methedor wrote:
How does this apply to the idea of spraying in area or would that just be MAP with the Auto-fire dice set to Fire Control Mode

The latter. I used to have a separate rule for countering MAPs, but that's essentially what a bonus to Fire Control would be either way.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 12121
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there any penalties to using auto-fire on these weapons? Like a higher diff to hit cause of recoil? Possibility to overheat? Having to 'stand there' so gets penalized on dodge??
_________________
Confuscious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12052
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Are there any penalties to using auto-fire on these weapons? Like a higher diff to hit cause of recoil?

My thinking is that this is factored into the restrictions on how the Auto-Fire dice can be used at varying ranges (such as at Long Range how it can only be applied to Fire Control, meaning that you're having to pump out a lot more rounds to get a hit as you get further away.

Another factor is the number of rounds expended. I use the x2 = +1D method, but for this system, the base modifier goes up to x4 = +1D, then to x5 = +1D for subsequent steps. This represents the shooter having to hose off a much greater number of shots to get the advantages.

Quote:
Possibility to overheat?

Advanced technology handwavium. Repeater weapon design includes re enforced and shielded firing chambers and barrels that prevent overheating. YMMV.

Quote:
Having to 'stand there' so gets penalized on dodge??

That's reasonable. I'm treating the 1D Short Bursts as little different from single shots, but a -1D or -2D penalty to all actions (including MAPs) when doing anything other than firing a Medium or Long Burst works for me.

The on-screen evidence strongly indicates that blasters have a greatly reduced recoil compared to modern firearms. Since Blasters are pretty much the go-to ranged weapon of the SWU, I'm going with the idea that what recoil blasters do have is factored into the existing Range and MAP system. If you feel the need to add in the crunch required to simulate varying degrees of recoil for other weapons, that is your prerogative.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 12121
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Are there any penalties to using auto-fire on these weapons? Like a higher diff to hit cause of recoil?

My thinking is that this is factored into the restrictions on how the Auto-Fire dice can be used at varying ranges (such as at Long Range how it can only be applied to Fire Control, meaning that you're having to pump out a lot more rounds to get a hit as you get further away.

Another factor is the number of rounds expended. I use the x2 = +1D method, but for this system, the base modifier goes up to x4 = +1D, then to x5 = +1D for subsequent steps. This represents the shooter having to hose off a much greater number of shots to get the advantages.


Fare enough..

CRMcNeill wrote:
Quote:
Possibility to overheat?

Advanced technology handwavium. Repeater weapon design includes re enforced and shielded firing chambers and barrels that prevent overheating. YMMV.



Definitely counts as handwavium. Some Major handwavium there..

CRMcNeill wrote:
Quote:
Having to 'stand there' so gets penalized on dodge??

That's reasonable. I'm treating the 1D Short Bursts as little different from single shots, but a -1D or -2D penalty to all actions (including MAPs) when doing anything other than firing a Medium or Long Burst works for me.


One of the things i liked how sparks handles burst/full auto fire is if you DO it, you are doubly penalized for any other action for MAPs. So if you take 3 actions (move, full auto and dodge) that's -4D! not -2d.

CRMcNeill wrote:
The on-screen evidence strongly indicates that blasters have a greatly reduced recoil compared to modern firearms. Since Blasters are pretty much the go-to ranged weapon of the SWU, I'm going with the idea that what recoil blasters do have is factored into the existing Range and MAP system. If you feel the need to add in the crunch required to simulate varying degrees of recoil for other weapons, that is your prerogative.


Actually looking at the films, starting with ANH, through RotJ, all the prequels and even into TFA, when Han shoots his pistol, it jerks up rather a lot. The stormies rifles also jerk up, just not as much as the pistol. Same even for those piddly ones the biker scouts wielded in RoTJ. heck even those 2 that Jango used had a pretty big kick...
_________________
Confuscious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12052
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Definitely counts as handwavium. Some Major handwavium there..

I fail to see how, in a universe with Blaster weapons, hyperdrives, the Force, light sabers and Death Stars, this qualifies as "Major handwavium." Tech in the SWU is nothing more than an excuse to explain a plot point or smooth over a discrepancy.

Quote:
So if you take 3 actions (move, full auto and dodge) that's -4D! not -2d.

That's a bit extreme for my tastes.

Quote:
Actually looking at the films, starting with ANH, through RotJ, all the prequels and even into TFA, when Han shoots his pistol, it jerks up rather a lot. The stormies rifles also jerk up, just not as much as the pistol. Same even for those piddly ones the biker scouts wielded in RoTJ. heck even those 2 that Jango used had a pretty big kick...

I measure that against multiple instances where Blaster rifles are fired off the shoulder with little or no recoil, or other instances where pistols are fired without visible recoil and conclude that your cited references are the exception, not the rule.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Dredwulf60
Captain
Captain


Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overall I find this system very well thought out and extremely eloquent.

Bravo.

The only negative is the overheating.

As we all know, you can handwaive whatever; and star wars tech can be shown to be far in advance of ours in many ways. But to me it doesn't settle well, and here's my reasoning:

Weapons design (and most tech) always pushing an envelope. If you can shoot X amount without heat problems...then someone is going to find a way to push it to X+1.

Like initial desiger saying: 'This blaster has the technology to fire energy packets at a rate of 1 per second with perfect zero-ing and negligible heating issues under clinical trials.'

End product design: ' Perfect! I want it with a selector that allows it to fire 4 packets every time I pull the trigger; because on an assault its going to be a handy feature. Yes I know ding this a lot is going to cause some issues, but it's manageable with a bit of discipline'

This can be simulated with jury rigging rules, but I think the extra bit of effort devoted to some nod to extreme fire rates taxing a heat dissipation system would be worth it.

Nothing big...but surely just a nod toward it.

EDIT:
Full and fair disclosure;
I have my own autofire rules; but I'm considering adopting yours. My version doesn't have a nod to overheating either; which Is why I'm really wanting to see what you come up with.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12052
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The potential for overheating was actually my explanation for why standard Blaster rifles can only fire semi-auto or short bursts; any more and you start to run into overheating issues. Full auto weapons are modified with shielded and reenforced firing chambers and barrels to neutralize the problem, but as a consequence they are bigger and bulkier than non-repeaters. The more powerful the blast becomes, the bigger and more robust the Blaster has to be to handle it.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Dredwulf60
Captain
Captain


Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The potential for overheating was actually my explanation for why standard Blaster rifles can only fire semi-auto or short bursts; any more and you start to run into overheating issues. Full auto weapons are modified with shielded and reenforced firing chambers and barrels to neutralize the problem, but as a consequence they are bigger and bulkier than non-repeaters. The more powerful the blast becomes, the bigger and more robust the Blaster has to be to handle it.


ok, that makes sense.

So, theoretically, you could circumvent the requirement to fire short bursts...and run the risk of overheating.

What would that look like?

(not trying to be difficult)

If I were writing it, I'd have something like; for every die of autofire (past the recommended / hardware limit) be set aside after rolling. at the end of the round roll those dice against the weapon's body based difficulty.

If it exceeds then you have to do a round of remedial action (replace a heat sink, let the chamber cool or some such.)

But that still seems a little clunky.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 12121
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The potential for overheating was actually my explanation for why standard Blaster rifles can only fire semi-auto or short bursts; any more and you start to run into overheating issues. Full auto weapons are modified with shielded and reenforced firing chambers and barrels to neutralize the problem, but as a consequence they are bigger and bulkier than non-repeaters. The more powerful the blast becomes, the bigger and more robust the Blaster has to be to handle it.


And how is that 'bulkiness' being represented? Min str to wield it? Kick back? Recoil? Penalties to dodge cause of encumbrance??
_________________
Confuscious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12052
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe for a jury-rigged repeater, treat it as a Wild Dice failure. For every D of Auto-Fire dice used that round is a Wild Die, with the number of consecutive rounds on full auto as the baseline for Wild Dice failure. On a Wild Die failure, the Blaster overheats and stops functioning, requiring a Blaster Repair roll. Then you re-roll the Wild Dice, and on another failure, the Blaster blows up.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12052
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
And how is that 'bulkiness' being represented? Min str to wield it? Kick back? Recoil? Penalties to dodge cause of encumbrance??
Bulkiness. When I re-did the Blaster stats, the heavier repeaters all suffer a -1D penalty to Blaster at Point Blank range. Weapons with the Riot upgrade are similarly limited by low ammo capacity.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 12121
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Maybe for a jury-rigged repeater, treat it as a Wild Dice failure. For every D of Auto-Fire dice used that round is a Wild Die, with the number of consecutive rounds on full auto as the baseline for Wild Dice failure. On a Wild Die failure, the Blaster overheats and stops functioning, requiring a Blaster Repair roll. Then you re-roll the Wild Dice, and on another failure, the Blaster blows up.


Far enough. BUT what is that repair roll at, to de-over heat it?
_________________
Confuscious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naaman
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 2451

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Are there any penalties to using auto-fire on these weapons? Like a higher diff to hit cause of recoil?

My thinking is that this is factored into the restrictions on how the Auto-Fire dice can be used at varying ranges (such as at Long Range how it can only be applied to Fire Control, meaning that you're having to pump out a lot more rounds to get a hit as you get further away.

Another factor is the number of rounds expended. I use the x2 = +1D method, but for this system, the base modifier goes up to x4 = +1D, then to x5 = +1D for subsequent steps. This represents the shooter having to hose off a much greater number of shots to get the advantages.

Quote:
Possibility to overheat?

Advanced technology handwavium. Repeater weapon design includes re enforced and shielded firing chambers and barrels that prevent overheating. YMMV.

Quote:
Having to 'stand there' so gets penalized on dodge??

That's reasonable. I'm treating the 1D Short Bursts as little different from single shots, but a -1D or -2D penalty to all actions (including MAPs) when doing anything other than firing a Medium or Long Burst works for me.

The on-screen evidence strongly indicates that blasters have a greatly reduced recoil compared to modern firearms. Since Blasters are pretty much the go-to ranged weapon of the SWU, I'm going with the idea that what recoil blasters do have is factored into the existing Range and MAP system. If you feel the need to add in the crunch required to simulate varying degrees of recoil for other weapons, that is your prerogative.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you've written, but, if you're assessing MAPs for using auto-fire, why would you need an additional penalty to dodge? Seems that the MAP should cover that (having to "stand there" while you blast for a prolonged burst).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> House Rules All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0