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Blind Hyperspace Jumps
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
Enforcers nothing. Send for the Inquisitorius!










...He'll never expect them.

But only if they're Spanish.

Wink
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Bren wrote:
Enforcers nothing. Send for the Inquisitorius!










...He'll never expect them.

But only if they're Spanish.

Wink



Inquisitors of Spa'an
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"Amongst our weapons are Fear, Surprise, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope!"

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Volar the Healer
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have them reappear into real space where my next adventure begins, or maybe at a bizarre adventure I want to run in a place where they've no reason to go - badly damaged - their hyperdrive needing repair among other things, until they complete the adventure. (ship is being repaired, parts need to be shipped in, whatever).
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Bren
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volar the Healer wrote:
I have them reappear into real space where my next adventure begins, or maybe at a bizarre adventure I want to run in a place where they've no reason to go - badly damaged - their hyperdrive needing repair among other things, until they complete the adventure. (ship is being repaired, parts need to be shipped in, whatever).

Nice Cool
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Argentsaber
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The more I think about this, I think there need to be separate rules for blind jumps. Pretty much all the penalties and mishaps for normal jumps are the result of failed calculations where the ship goes off course. But in the case of an emergency blind jump, there are no calculations to screw up. I'm thinking a completely separate result chart, drawing from the Astrogation Mishap Table:
    -On most ships, the hyperdrive cut-out cannot be disabled without an Easy Repair Roll and 15 minutes. However, some ships (smuggling vessels and special missions craft) are equipped with an in-cockpit control that allows them to deactivate the cut-out as a Free Action. Naturally, such cut-outs are highly illegal, and are generally concealed as some other, nondescript ship's function in order to deceive inspections and customs agents.

    -Just spitballing some numbers, I'd say that a blind jump has a duration of 2D minutes, placing the ship at a random location in deep space. Calculating a new jump from that location adds +2D to Astrogation Difficulty.

    -Because of the disabled hyperspace cut-out, any Blind Jump result chart would have to include a very real chance of the ship colliding with a large object at hyperspace velocities, resulting in the instant destruction of the ship and all aboard. At a minimum, it would need to be a 1-in-6 chance on a 2D, so either as the 7 result, or as 2-4 or 10-12. Possibly more. Making it the result of a 2-5 or 9-12 increases the possibility very nearly to 1-in-3 (5 to 1Cool. It needs to be high enough that PCs might chance it, but the first time they suffer a TPK will make them rethink it next time...

    -In addition, because a blind jump is linear and of short duration, it can be tracked and duplicated at Very Easy Difficulty by a pursuing ship.

    -In fact, I think I may make the TPK result on the upper end of the scale, with a modifier based on how long the ship stays in hyperspace on the blind jump. Like, for every extra 10 minutes, increase the Difficulty of being tracked and pursued, but also shift +1 up the result chart, toward TPK range.


A few things from an old timer..

1- I would not allow the cutout to be disabled so easily.. instead use the jury-rigging rules (obviously a non-lethal kind however).

2- I can't recall at this point if the newer editions still use uncertainty dice, but the concept is that you add an equal number of dice to both the player's pool and the difficulty. For weighted results, treat one or more of the uncertainty dice in the difficulty pool as wild.

3- The one and only time this came up in my old campaign (so old the most recent sourcebook was Heir to the Empire, as the others hadn't been written yet) my solution was to merely run the module "Otherspace."

4- Based on the description found in point 3, when doing this kind of nonsense, the hyperdrive has a non-trivial chance to burn out it's motivator. My players actually started improving their backup hyperdrive at one point, just in case.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moving this here:
    Blind Hyperspace Jumps
    Modifying Your Ship
    Deactivating your ship's hyperdrive safety cut-out is a Very Bad Idea; it's called a Safety Cut-Out for good reason. However, some ships (generally those involved in illicit or covert activities) occasionally find themselves in situations where risking likely death by making a blind hyperdrive jump is preferable to the alternative.

    On the vast majority of ships, the hyperdrive cut-out is hard-wired into the system, and can not be easily deactivated (to do so requires a Difficult Repair roll that takes 15 minutes). However, some ships (smuggling vessels and intel special missions craft in particular) are equipped with a discrete control switch that allows the ship's crew to deactivate the cut-out as a Free Action. Naturally, such switches are highly illegal, and are usually disguised as some other, nondescript ship's function in order to deceive inspections and customs agents. Installing the switch and mechanism requires a Very Difficult Repair roll and takes 4 hours.

    The Jump
    With the safety cut-out deactivated, the ship will have no advance warning of mass shadows in its path, and any collision will be fatal. Whereas most of the results on the standard Hyperdrive Mishap table have to do with the ship being off course due to bad course calculations, in the case of a blind jump, there is no course to miscalculate, as the ship has simply jumped a linear course in whatever direction it happened to be pointed when the hyperdrive engaged. As such, it's only a matter of time before the ship collides with something.

    Making a blind jump requires an Easy Piloting roll. On a successful jump, roll 2D. If the result is 10 or less, the ship emerges from hyperspace at a random location 2D minutes away from the jump's starting point. On a roll of 11 or 12, the ship collides with a mass shadow and is obliterated, with everyone onboard killed instantly.

    On a successful jump, the ship must re-engage its hyperdrive cut-out and calculate a new jump from its current location (+2D to Astrogation Difficulty)

    Complications
    Because the jump is linear and of short duration, it can be tracked and duplicated at Easy Difficulty by a pursuing craft. The characters may wish to stay in hyperspace longer in an attempt to throw off any pursuit (Difficulty increases at a rate of +5 for every additional 1D minutes spent in hyperspace). However, this increases the likelihood of a collision (re-roll 2D, with a modifier of +1 for every additional 1D minutes spent in hyperspace).

    It is impossible to reconnect the safety cut-out while the ship is in hyperspace. Any attempt to do so will destroy the cut-out completely.

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Came across this in a link on the old Blockade Runner's Guide.

    To make escaping an Interdictor Cruiser a reality, follow these steps carefully...

    1). Verify there is an Interdictor at your intended destination. This may cramp your style a bit, and you may think of another way around all of this, but this is the best way. There are plenty of ways to find this information. You can consult an infochant or other information broker. Depending on the sensitivity of the situation, this may cost a lot of money. Another alternative is to simply ask around to others who have been to the destination recently. Beware that the information you get could be little more than guesses or rumors. A way you can be pretty sure is to do it yourself. Fly to the destination yourself in a clean ship or pay a friend do it. When you arrive, plead ignorant to knowing the system was under blockade. The blockading force will probably board you and question you, but should you go. On your way out of the system, choose a destination that you would like to jump to after the actual run, and plot that course. At the same time, remember to record what escape vector you are travelling on. Pick a point to jump to that is not far away and will take only a few minutes or so to reach (also known as a "microjump"). You want to do this because you will be removing the safety cut-off systems from your hyperdrive. Minimizing the trip will minimized the danger of collision. Once that is done, plot another course wherever else and leave the system. Your GM should determine the difficulty of these actions and what rolls to perform. Also note that you will probably have to do this regardless of whether or not you consult an infochant, because you will need to acquire the escape coordinates anyway.

    2). Disable your hyperdrive safety systems. The next step is to modify your hyperdrive system. You must create a way to temporarily disable the emergency cut-off system that pulls your ship out of hyperspace when it detects a gravity mass in the ship's path. If this system is removed, the use of an Interdictor Cruiser will be nullified. The bad news is that you will be "flying blind," because there will be nothing stopping you from colliding with anything. There are a million different ways to do this. Some hook a portable computer into the hyperdrive system and run a constant loop through the seperate computer to keep the data from interacting with the safety programming. Others remove the hyperdrive computer's ability to even access that portion of the system by either removing the data cards that contain that system or switching some wires around. These are but a few suggestions, but keep in mind that whatever you come up with it should be with the help, guidance and approval of your GM and should be temporary. The system you create must be able to replace the cut-off system like it was almost immeadiately.

    3). Feed the pre-navigated route into the navigation computer. The escape route you plotted should be fed into the navigation system and be ready to download into the hyperdrive instantly. When it comes time to escape the blockade, you will want these coordinates on-hand immeadiately.

    4). When you have finished your microjump, plot a new course as soon as possible. You may want to skip around, hitting a few different and random destinations before you return to your point of origin or homebase so that you aren't tracked. Before making the second jump, reactivate your safety cut-off systems on the hyperdrive to avoid flying for long durations of time at risk of collision.

    Your GM should read this, and be involved in the process of setting up and executing this. The GM will be responsible for determining what you can and cannot do, at what difficulty everything is, and what skills are involved in rolling for all the appropriate actions.



    This is an original work by Tim "Nealos" Salam, except where noted.

What I noticed in particular was the suggestion of pre-plotting the "blind" route in advance if you know you're facing an Interdictor.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I look at this sort of in a stange way.

To me the only difference ina blind jump and a normal jump is the destination
what is located at the end of the jump, a ship, a planet, asteroids.
Will you be able to astrogate enough to get your actual galactic location to jump back home etc etc.

Interdictors and gravity fields, safety features and the like are to me things that influences the start of the jump, not the jump or the destination.

I would also rule that the safety features of the actual hyperdive engines are overdrive prevention, as overdrives can cause explotions and leaks of deadly fluids (thrawn book)

As to the nav computer, a manual override of the safety features is to me only changing existing nav coordinates or adding a new one, be it to a known lane or a blind.


In short to me the danger lies in the destination and what happens after the blind jump, much more so than the actual jump it self
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you combine the WEG rules for the Interdictor (see Wanted by Cracken), it gets a bit more complicated. Under those rules, a jump can be made more difficult if done too close to a gravity well. Since Hyperdrive Mishaps almost entirely revolve around ships going off course (and only come into play if the Astrogation roll fails by 10 or less), the implication is that being too close to a gravity well at the start of the jump can easily throw off the accuracy of the rest of the jump.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
When you combine the WEG rules for the Interdictor (see Wanted by Cracken), it gets a bit more complicated. Under those rules, a jump can be made more difficult if done too close to a gravity well. Since Hyperdrive Mishaps almost entirely revolve around ships going off course (and only come into play if the Astrogation roll fails by 10 or less), the implication is that being too close to a gravity well at the start of the jump can easily throw off the accuracy of the rest of the jump.



But this would then apply to all jumps, not just blind jumps.

What is your view on blind destination jumps ?

I think this is where the actual "blind jump" originates and were the dangers are
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
But this would then apply to all jumps, not just blind jumps.

What is your view on blind destination jumps ?

I think this is where the actual "blind jump" originates and were the dangers are

Because in the case of blind jumps, there isn't a planned destination, apart from "anywhere but here, ASAP." The only possible way to go off course would be to end up back where you started. Any gravitic anomalies affecting the course will just make the ship appear somewhere other than it would have if there hadn't been any gravity well interference, but since there was no specific destination planned, then it doesn't really matter.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, but would not the primary function of the interdictor be to prevent jumping and ripping ships from hyperspace, as seen in rebels

this makes me think that the interdictor more prevents hyperjump than changes the course, a course change is still a getaway, rendering the ship really useless.

you can overdrive your hyperdrive, the result is a greater chance of navigation getting screwed in order to break out of the gravity field that hinders you to otherwise jump.

at least that is how I see the interdictor work
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Interdictor works because basically every ship in the SWU has a built-in safety feature that prevents the ship from engaging its hyperdrive if it is too close to a gravity well. A select number of ships, however, have been modified to temporarily disconnect that safety cut-out. Other ships may - if the ship's engineer is skilled enough - disconnect said cut-out deliberately, but not quickly or easily. In either instance, the goal is merely to escape, not to make an accurate jump to whatever their true destination is; that can be dealt with later.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The Interdictor works because basically every ship in the SWU has a built-in safety feature that prevents the ship from engaging its hyperdrive if it is too close to a gravity well. A select number of ships, however, have been modified to temporarily disconnect that safety cut-out. Other ships may - if the ship's engineer is skilled enough - disconnect said cut-out deliberately, but not quickly or easily. In either instance, the goal is merely to escape, not to make an accurate jump to whatever their true destination is; that can be dealt with later.



Preventing enem ships from jumping, not influencing their actual jump ( though they may force a destination change as part of any safety features that needs to be bypassed)
If a ship is held back, it can still end up at the right place, if it escapes the gravity well it can still end up in the right place, there is no reprogramming of the enemy ship's nav coordinates from the interdictor.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
Preventing enem ships from jumping, not influencing their actual jump ( though they may force a destination change as part of any safety features that needs to be bypassed)
If a ship is held back, it can still end up at the right place, if it escapes the gravity well it can still end up in the right place, there is no reprogramming of the enemy ship's nav coordinates from the interdictor.

What is your evidentiary basis for this? It's pretty clear from the WEG rules (as of the Interdictor stats in Wanted by Cracken) that a gravity field could throw a ship off course, assuming it wasn't quite strong enough to stop the jump entirely. If this is how you want your SWU to work, that's fine, but lets be clear about it.
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