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The Last Jedi (original spoilers thread)
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another question...

Although strongly implied, are we completely sure of the reason Luke rebelled from the Jedi? Yes, it was the fiasco with Ben that effects him, but he seemed to set blame on the entire Jedi religion as well. What, exactly, turned Luke away from the Jedi?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Here's another question...

Although strongly implied, are we completely sure of the reason Luke rebelled from the Jedi? Yes, it was the fiasco with Ben that effects him, but he seemed to set blame on the entire Jedi religion as well. What, exactly, turned Luke away from the Jedi?

My theory? Yoda. Notice how dismissive his Force Ghost was of the ancient Jedi texts. I've always thought that he spent his time on Dagobah meditating on the fall of the Jedi, and that when he trained Luke, he stripped away all the dogma and the rules and simply concentrated on teaching Luke to feel the Force. He may also have been how Luke found out about Darth Sidious.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Here's another question...

Although strongly implied, are we completely sure of the reason Luke rebelled from the Jedi? Yes, it was the fiasco with Ben that effects him, but he seemed to set blame on the entire Jedi religion as well. What, exactly, turned Luke away from the Jedi?

My theory? Yoda. Notice how dismissive his Force Ghost was of the ancient Jedi texts. I've always thought that he spent his time on Dagobah meditating on the fall of the Jedi, and that when he trained Luke, he stripped away all the dogma and the rules and simply concentrated on teaching Luke to feel the Force. He may also have been how Luke found out about Darth Sidious.


Interesting. I can see your logic on this.


A tangent: Notice how Rey never did really train with Luke. Luke told her that she needed a teacher. Ben told her that in TFA.

People say that Luke's training was aborted. Goodness! Look at what Rey got. One day! And, IIRC from the film, Luke got pissed at her mid-way through the day and stopped training her.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Variety is reporting a $215 million opening weekend, which puts TLJ as the fourth largest domestic opening in history behind The Force Awakens, Jurassic World, and The Avengers.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early reviews by viewers are not good. Not good at all.

Critics love it. (I love it.)

Rotten Tomatoes has the reviews from Critics at 93%, but the reviews from viewers at 57%.

MetaCritic is similar. Metascore for Critics is 86. For viewers is 5!
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spoiler complaint

A single fighter takes out ALL of a dreadnoughts turbolasers and anti-starfighter weapons?

Bombers flying so close together they fratricide?

And shouldn't bombers that big have capital scale shields?

Nope. I stopped watching at that point and left that's too Monty Haul. Thank God I was given a free ticket. I'd have been upset if I had paid to see that.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ForbinProject wrote:
A single fighter takes out ALL of a dreadnoughts turbolasers and anti-starfighter weapons?


Yep. "Gulp." (Sweat.) Space Opera.



Quote:
Bombers flying so close together they fratricide?


Seems to be the way things are done in the SW universe. All the large space battles we've seen featuring capital ships in all of the movies show them close formations. Look at the opening of Revenge of the Sith and the climax to Return of the Jedi.



Quote:
And shouldn't bombers that big have capital scale shields?


I'm guessing those are very old bombers--probably Y-Wing era. It'd be interesting to see what TLJ Visual Directory has to say.

I bet they are old tech. The Resistance has been, from the beginning, extremely under funded, even more so than the Rebellion of the original trilogy. Their ships are old, hand-me-downs, their tech is second hand and surplus.



Quote:
Nope. I stopped watching at that point and left that's too Monty Haul. Thank God I was given a free ticket. I'd have been upset if I had paid to see that.


Wow! You actually walked out on the film--one of the greatest Star Wars films ever made?!?!
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, I saw on the net a page from TLJ Visual Dictionary. The MG-100 Starfortress bomber dates back to the Galactic Civil War. It's old.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Yep, I saw on the net a page from TLJ Visual Dictionary. The MG-100 Starfortress bomber dates back to the Galactic Civil War. It's old.

That's one of the things I like about the older stuff from the TFA Era; it's a lot easier to stat it up and transplant it back into the Rebellion Era. I'm absolutely going to do stats for the MG-100 and have it available for Alliance PCs during the Galactic Civil War. I did the same with the Baleen-Class Heavy Freighter, the Quadjumper and the Resistance Transport, since all three had an old-enough pedigree as to be believable if they showed up in the past.
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loved it.

My only complaint: there were a few too many "twists" for my taste (the thief selling out Finn; Luke dying, then not dying, then dying; Kylo waffling back and forth)

But other than that... Lord, what an emotional ride.
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Yep, I saw on the net a page from TLJ Visual Dictionary. The MG-100 Starfortress bomber dates back to the Galactic Civil War. It's old.


Oh good to hear. I did like the bombers, my only real problem with them was the tactic of flying too close together. If they're that old the shields aren't a nitpick to me then.

And that was a minor gripe for me compared to Pooh's (sorry Poe's) taking out all the dreadnoughts weapons (except the big assault cannon) with a single fighter.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ForbinProject wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Yep, I saw on the net a page from TLJ Visual Dictionary. The MG-100 Starfortress bomber dates back to the Galactic Civil War. It's old.


Oh good to hear. I did like the bombers, my only real problem with them was the tactic of flying too close together. If they're that old the shields aren't a nitpick to me then.

And that was a minor gripe for me compared to Pooh's (sorry Poe's) taking out all the dreadnoughts weapons (except the big assault cannon) with a single fighter.


I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread...about references to WWII.

The bombers are a clear analogy to the WWII bombing runs...where the flying fortresses would be required to be clustered so close together that one being destroyed sometimes took out others nearby. They were clustered because they all needed to drop their bombs on the same target at relatively the same time frame.

And the speeds showed in the movie are pretty much analagous to fighters trying to protect flying bombers on a run.

---

I'm not sure why you didn't like Poe taking out all of the anti-fighter cannons on the ship...after seeing what he could do in the cockpit in his scenes in TFA.

We play Star Wars D6 for pete's sake! That's what it would look like if a pilot had a dozen dice in his skills! There woulnd't be many like him in the entire galaxy...but he's there!

Very Happy
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel and GG6 and The Last Jedi Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Bren wrote:
Considering it references The Last Jedi, wasn't this thread supposed to have a spoiler alert? I thought the 1E section would be safe from spoilers.

There aren't really any spoilers here. You can get more spoiled just by watching a preview trailer.

Wajeb, Bren is right. I've seen all the American trailers and a couple international ones. I don't remember any trailer mentioning the fuel plot point. I moved your Fuel thread to a non-public place. I will be happy to move it back to the forum on January 1st.

Wajeb, I deleted your "now that we've seen TLJ" Snoke thread and quoted the post above in this thread. I sent you a PM about it you still haven't read. Please see your PM, and please cease and desist posting new threads with spoilers. This is the ONLY thread for spoilers until January 1st in the USA Eastern time zone.

Spoiler replies in non-spoiler threads can use the white font colour 'spoiler tagging' as described in the Spoiler Policy thread. During the spoiler protection period, new spoiler topics should be discussed in this thread instead of creating new threads.

Wajeb, I posted this here in hopes that you would see it. I appreciate your enthusiasm for discussing TLJ, but if you continue to violate the Spoiler Policy, I will have no choice but to deactivate your account until January. Thank you.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
The bombers are a clear analogy to the WWII bombing runs...where the flying fortresses would be required to be clustered so close together that one being destroyed sometimes took out others nearby. They were clustered because they all needed to drop their bombs on the same target at relatively the same time frame.

And the speeds showed in the movie are pretty much analogous to fighters trying to protect flying bombers on a run.

Perhaps I'm getting old, but I can't remember if the bombers were taken out by TIE Fighters or by defensive fire from the dreadnought. If it was by fighters, then there is one in-universe circumstance in which flying close together would be an advantage. Multiple EU sources reference ships being able to overlap their shields to increase their overall protection. No one has ever come up with rules to represent this in a game, but the concept is there.

Off the top of my head, I'd treat it like Cover, with the Cover bonus going to Shields, rather than the Gunnery Difficulty, with the offsetting cost that any Terrain or Maneuver skill rolls will be more difficult due to being in such close quarters with other ships.

Quote:
I'm not sure why you didn't like Poe taking out all of the anti-fighter cannons on the ship...after seeing what he could do in the cockpit in his scenes in TFA.

We play Star Wars D6 for pete's sake! That's what it would look like if a pilot had a dozen dice in his skills! There woulnd't be many like him in the entire galaxy...but he's there!

Very Happy

Agreed. If anything, I find Poe's piloting skills more believable than Rey's.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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nuclearwookiee
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just saw it tonight; I think it goes a long way toward making up for the missed opportunity that was Ep. VII. But I'm so sad that in the end, nobody showed up. Princess Leia herself sends out a personal plea for help, and nobody shows up. Now the entire rebellion (at least we're no longer pretending it's something else) fits on the Millennium Falcon.
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