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Rate of Fire
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
Whill wrote:
I feel the same way. I have Bowcaster as an advanced skill. Wookiees teach that skill to each other and then they can use it to create their own bowcaster, so each bowcaster is a unique creation and they can vary greatly.


Does this make bowcaster a non advanced skill for Wookies?
as in a regular skill

No. It is an advanced skill for everyone. But non-Wookiees are rarely ever going to know the skill because Wookiees don't teach it to non-Wookiees. But I guess the Guardians of the Whills had the skill too, until they all died.

Not all Wookiees even have the skill. Being an advanced skill, you have to have all the prerequisites. But that's just how I see it.


sort of makes sense, not all wookies are warriors
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

No. It is an advanced skill for everyone. But non-Wookiees are rarely ever going to know the skill because Wookiees don't teach it to non-Wookiees. But I guess the Guardians of the Whills had the skill too, until they all died.

Not all Wookiees even have the skill. Being an advanced skill, you have to have all the prerequisites. But that's just how I see it.


This seems odd to me, but I suppose I would have to see the write up to fully understand. I figured that it's distinction as a separate skill (like lightsaber as distinct from melee combat/parry) would make it "unique" enough that non-wookiees wouldn't bother having it (or, like lightsaber, it could just require a good, solid story-driven reason why a non-wookiee would have it).
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Any discussion of bowcaster rate of fire should include the scene on Endor, where Chewie takes out a speeder bike with several shots in rapid succession. There is no way a video game showing a bowcaster firing slow overrules a film from the original trilogy that shows it firing fast.

I agree, at least for Chewie's bowcaster that he had in that movie.

Naaman wrote:
Whill wrote:
No. It is an advanced skill for everyone. But non-Wookiees are rarely ever going to know the skill because Wookiees don't teach it to non-Wookiees. But I guess the Guardians of the Whills had the skill too, until they all died.

Not all Wookiees even have the skill. Being an advanced skill, you have to have all the prerequisites. But that's just how I see it.

This seems odd to me, but I suppose I would have to see the write up to fully understand. I figured that it's distinction as a separate skill (like lightsaber as distinct from melee combat/parry) would make it "unique" enough that non-wookiees wouldn't bother having it (or, like lightsaber, it could just require a good, solid story-driven reason why a non-wookiee would have it).

When I get to the point of a new write-up, I'll be happy to share it. I think a bowcaster doesn't really make much sense as a weapon in general, but it makes more sense to me if it is a cultural traditional weapon. I imagine the ancient traditional weapon of the Wookiees was the archaic crossbow, but that is insufficient against enemies with blasters. As Wookiees incorporated more technology into their lives, some even leaving Kashyyyk behind for the greater galaxy, it was important for them to maintain some connections with their past and the natural world, so a hybrid blaster-projectile weapon reflects that. Since RotS bowcasters have actually been made with both metal and wood components. I like that.

And as far as the advanced oddity, keep in mind that I elevated a few other RAW-normal skills into advanced skill too, like Astrogation, Capital Ship Piloting, Forgery and Lightsaber. So take that for whatever it's worth to you.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that makes some sense. I think it comes down to the difference between our respective definitions of "advanced."
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Grimace
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Any discussion of bowcaster rate of fire should include the scene on Endor, where Chewie takes out a speeder bike with several shots in rapid succession. There is no way a video game showing a bowcaster firing slow overrules a film from the original trilogy that shows it firing fast.

I agree, at least for Chewie's bowcaster that he had in that movie.


I can't remember if it was changed in later editions or not, but there used to be a Strength requirement to fire a bowcaster. I believe it was inferred, somewhere, that Strength was needed to "cock" the weapon in order to fire it again.

If that is the case, then it would simply be a matter of making multiple Strength checks, affected by MAPs, for firing multiple shots like Chewie did in Return of the Jedi. So when you consider Chewie firing something like 3 or 4 shots in rapid succession, it would be two to three Strength checks and three to four firings, meaning something like 6 to 8 actions, so a -5 to -7 applied to each action. Speaks volumes as to Chewie's strength!

So the "rate of fire" for a bowcaster would be limited by the strength of the firer.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Yeah, that makes some sense. I think it comes down to the difference between our respective definitions of "advanced."

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not using any personal definition of "advanced". I'm using "advanced" skills as in the objective RAW mechanic: Skills that do not default to any attribute, that you must have prerequisite skills to have.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I meant was that you and I might interpret what should and should not qualify as an advanced skill differently.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimace wrote:

I can't remember if it was changed in later editions or not, but there used to be a Strength requirement to fire a bowcaster. I believe it was inferred, somewhere, that Strength was needed to "cock" the weapon in order to fire it again.

If that is the case, then it would simply be a matter of making multiple Strength checks, affected by MAPs, for firing multiple shots like Chewie did in Return of the Jedi. So when you consider Chewie firing something like 3 or 4 shots in rapid succession, it would be two to three Strength checks and three to four firings, meaning something like 6 to 8 actions, so a -5 to -7 applied to each action. Speaks volumes as to Chewie's strength!

So the "rate of fire" for a bowcaster would be limited by the strength of the firer.


I also remember that rule. The 1e source book said simply "It requires great strength to cock it, so its not as usable a weapon by lower strength races."

The 2e blue cover rule book (Page 155) says [i]Note, if a character wishes to fire the weapon more than once in a round, he must make an easy strength roll to be able to aim the weapon (counting as a free action). Reloading the weapon with a new quarrel, requires a moderate strength roll"//

The 2e revised book has the same note, on page 233
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here...

WOOKIEE BOWCASTERS
There is a great deal of disagreement in the galaxy at large as to what a bowcaster is and how it operates. The reason for this is that the bowcaster is actually part of a broad class of weapons ranging from simple, single-shot hunting weapons to full-on, multi-shot assault weapons. Scholars have broken bowcasters down into a handful of broad categories, based on similarities of design.

BUILDING A BOWCASTER:
Because of their symbolic importance, Wookiees refuse to mass produce bowcasters; every bowcaster is assembled by hand. Assembling a bowcaster requires 5 days of dedicated work (8 hours per day) and three separate Bowcaster Repair rolls. The Difficulty of those rolls is dictated by the pattern of the bowcaster being assembled.


QUALITY BONUS:
Once all three Bowcaster Repair rolls have been completed, compare the lowest skill roll to the Base Assembly Difficulty. For every 5 points by which the low roll beat the Difficulty, add +1 pip to Fire Control, representing a particularly well made bowcaster.


BOWCASTER PATTERNS:

Initiation Pattern (aka Hrrtayyk Pattern)
Assembly Difficulty: Easy (500 credits for materials)
Ammo: 1, plus 50-shot power pack in butt-stock.
Fire Rate: 1 (The shooter may attempt to fire more than 1 shot per round, but must make a Difficult Bowcaster or Dexterity roll - with MAPs applied as normal - to load and fire an additional round, and may fire 1 additional round for every 10 points by which the Bowcaster / Dexterity roll succeeded).
Capsule: The Initiation Pattern is the simplest type of bowcaster, and is generally the type assembled by a Wookiee youngling as the first step in its Hrrtayyk rite of passage to adulthood. It is a single-shot, breech loading weapon, and is found in bolt, break-open, lever and pump-action variants (this does not appreciably affect the Difficulty of reloading). Initiation Pattern Bowcasters are commonly kept as heirlooms even if their owner has since moved on to one of the other Patterns, and are still deadly weapons despite their relative simplicity.

Defender Pattern
Assembly Difficulty:
--Revolver-Type: Easy (1,000 credits for materials)
--Pump-Action & Magazine: Moderate (1,000 credits for materials)
Ammo:
--Revolver-Type: 6 (in a revolving drum), plus 50-shot power pack in butt-stock.
--Pump-Action: 4 (in under-barrel tube), plus 50-shot power pack in butt-stock.
--Magazine: 6 (in detachable box magazine with integrated power pack).
Fire Rate: All models are either lever- or pump-action, which is counted as a Non-Roll Action for MAP purposes. However, the lever and pump actions require an Easy Strength roll as a Free Action to successfully reload.
Reloading:
--Revolver-Type: 1 Non-Roll Action per round loaded, although Speedloaders are available that reload all 6 shots in two Non-Roll Actions.
--Pump-Action: 1 Non-Roll Action per round loaded. Not Speedloader compatible.
--Magazine: 1 Non-Roll Action to replace box magazine.
Capsule: The next step up from the Initiation Pattern, the Defender Pattern is the common weapon of Wookiees who generally have other, non combat duties. Multiple pattern types exist, with the primary difference being the method of ammunition storage and reloading. Each has its own advantages, with the choice being based on individual preference. The Revolver type is easier to assemble but slower to reload (although Speedloaders are commonly available); the pump-action is also slow to load, but is more compatible with loading and firing specialty rounds on short notice; and the magazine type is quick to reload, but is the least compatible with specialty rounds (which must be in a box magazine and can not be individually loaded).

Battle Pattern
Assembly Difficulty: Difficult (1,500 credits for materials)
Ammo: 6 (Detachable Magazine, with integrated power pack)
Fire Rate: Semi-Auto. Reloading magazine counts as a Non-Roll Action.
Capsule: The Battle Pattern Bowcaster is the standard weapon for Wookiee warriors, with quicker firing rate than the Defender and Initiation Patterns. Its only real weakness is that it can only fire ammo from magazines, which makes it difficult to use more expensive and rare rounds, such as the Slayer Dart. Very rarely, a Battle Pattern Bowcaster will feature a Revolver-Type magazine (Moderate Assembly Difficulty, with same reloading restrictions as the Defender Pattern), but the vast majority are magazine-type.

Hunter Pattern
Assembly Difficulty: Very Difficult (2,500 credits for materials)
Ammo: 6 (in motorized revolver drum with loading port). Switching between ammo types is a Free Action.
Reloading: 1 Non-Roll Action per round loaded. Not Speedloader compatible.
Capsule: The ultimate in bowcaster design, the Hunter Pattern features a smart-revolver system. Individual rounds are scanned and encoded as they are loaded into the drum, and specific rounds can be selected for use by the shooter using button controls built into the bowcaster's foregrip. This allows the shooter to load and carry multiple types of bowcaster darts in the same weapon and quickly toggle between them as needed. Bowcasters of this type are found almost exclusively in the possession of solitary Wookiee hunters and scouts, who appreciate the ability to switch ammo types in an instant to deal with the unexpected.

Assault Pattern
Assembly Difficulty: Base Model +5 (Base Model Cost + 500 credits in materials + cost of combination weapon).
Ammo & Reloading: As Base Model.
Capsule: One of the most fearsome shoulder ams in existence, the Assault Pattern Bowcaster reconfigures one of the other Bowcaster Patterns as an under-barrel weapon in combination with a blaster rifle of some type. While any shoulder arm is a possibility, the most common combinations by far are the Heavy Blaster Rifle, Light Repeating Blaster or Marksman's Rifle.


AMMO TYPES:
EDIT: While Wookiees refuse to mass produce bowcasters, they have no such compunction when it comes to mass producing bowcaster ammunition. Most types of ammo are readily available and relatively inexpensive. The only exception is the powerful Slayer Round, which incorporates a proton nano-warhead, and is extremely difficult to manufacture.

Standard
Cost (Availability): 1 credit each (1)
Range: 3-10/50/150
Damage: 6D

Hunter
Cost (Availability): 1 credit each (1)
Range: 3-30/100/300
Damage: 5D

Penetrator
Cost (Availability): 2 credits each (1)
Range: 3-30/100/300
Damage: 4D physical (ignores up to 2D of Armor Protection)

Explosive
Cost (Availability): 20 credits each (2, R)
Range: 2-10/50/100
Damage: 5D/4D/2D
Blast Radius: 0-2/4/6

Shocker
Cost (Availability): 2 credits each (1)
Range: 3-10/50/150
Damage: 5D (Stun / Ionization)

Stalker
Cost (Availability): 2 credits each (2, R)
Range: 2-10/50/100
Damage: 4D+2 (physical)
Special: The Stalker has almost no firing signature, and can only be detected on a Moderate Perception or Search roll, and even then only if within 20 meters of the shooter.

Talon
Cost (Availability): 10 credits each (1)
Range: 2-10/50/100
Damage: 5D (Stun / Ionization)
Capsule: The Talon round is a specialized round used to hunt Kroyie birds, but has also proven quite effective against Imperial Patrol Droids. The Talon fires an expanding electro-net on the end of a fiber-line. It stuns or ionizes on impact (depending on the target), while simultaneously encasing the target in the net. The shooter then uses the attached line to reel in the target (which would otherwise drop into the depths of the Kashyyyk forests).

Slayer
Cost (Availability): 1,000 credits each (3, R)
Range: 3-10/30/50
Damage: 8D
Note: Slayer Rounds are reserved only for the most dire threats, and Wookiees consider themselves honor bound to use them sparingly.

Magazine - 20 credits each, rounds sold separately.

Speedloader - 10 credits each, rounds sold separately.

Note: These prices are listed for Wookiees only; for all others, Availability is Not Available For Sale. Exceptions may be made for non-Wookiee honor family members.
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The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Argentsaber
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a much simpler house rule (not for everyone I'm certain though). In my game a bowcaster can be fired almost exactly like a hunting blaster (many consecutive shots just like Chewie on Endor), but if a strong character takes an action to load the explosive quarrel/dart/whatever that goes inside every die gains the advantage of rerolling 6 just like a wild die. This allows the bowcaster (whose game stats are otherwise basically a cumbersome two handed blaster pistol) to get a serious punch.. averaging a damage slightly worse than a rifle or heavy pistol, but with occasional potential for substantial carnage.
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