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Wookiees are Known to Do That
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Whill
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Wookies are Known to Do That Reply with quote

griff wrote:
Han said "out of their sockets" not "off their bodies". Bu rip does imply off.

Actually Han didn't say rip. He said pull. "That's 'cause a droid don't pull people's arms out of their sockets when they lose." So no, that doesn't necessarily mean pull them off. It wouldn't exactly tickle though.

Quote:
For me, I see it as ironic and quite silly that a creature known as typically honorable and/or noble would be such a bad sport....

This is one of those silly things I disregard in the SW saga (particularly with regard to Chewbacca... I could see a case for some other unscrupulous wookiee, though.
Quote:
Wookiees ripping arms out of sockets has always been a bit of hyperbole for me.

Exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

It's the idea and imagery that is important.
...
These are expressions that are definitely meant to have an impression...not to be completely ignored...but not to be taken literally either.
...
The point would still be made that my friend might be in for a fight if he doesn't throw the game, without implying that one human is going to literally tear the arms off another.

Now having said all that, I do know there are various EU sources that try to illustrate the event/ phenomenon/ practice/ cultural proclivity or tendency literally. The one off the top of my head is in the young Han solo trilogy, first book, where Han's protector grabs a guy by the arm and with a forcible whip-snapping action dislocates the guy's arm from its socket.

Nice try, but (for me) it didn't really work. The EU tries too hard to explain every little speck of dialogue in the movies...and often not to good or reasonable effect.

This thread didn't age very well, LOL.

Bren wrote:
Whether it was hyperbole or not, I think Han meant it to be taken literally.
Urban Spaceman wrote:
I've always just thought that Han was winding the droids up.

Maybe we'll see Chewie ripping peoples arms off in the Han movie Wink

I agree that Han was probably just messing with Threepio in that Chewie wouldn't actually rip off droid arms just for losing a game, but I never doubted that Chewie woundn't ever rip off someone's arms in other situations. And yes the EU gave Wookiees honor, but the EU also supported the films that Wookiees have a temper. WEG 2e took that to extremes with the whole 'berserker rage' rules which never sat well with me.

JJ Abrams wanted to make the threat of dis-arming real but the scene got cut from TFA, and Ron Howard (and/or the Lego movie guys) finally did make it a reality in Solo (as well as establish that Chewie doesn't like losing at the hologame).
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Wookies are Known to Do That Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
So, what's the difficulty for ripping people's arms out of their sockets? Does that difficulty assume you do it one at a time, or restrain their torso so you can pull both off at once?

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
I'd rule that the Wookiee would have to kill his target with one blow, and the target uses a Force Point to be able to live through the experience.

That's one way to do it if the Wookiee is trying to kill and you want their victim to have a chance to survive (but be maimed). I may implement this in general for PCs (or important NPCs at anticlimactic times for them to die) - If a kill result is scored against the character, they can spend an FP to reduce it to mortally wounded (and thus give other characters a chance to save them).

Zarn wrote:
If you're beating the difficulty for a kill by 20 or more, feel free to add grisly detail no matter the numbers of the thing.

This seems to be for the Wookiee scoring a kill and just adding this detail to the kill result. I'm ok with that but ew.

Bren wrote:
I wouldn't require so much overkill. If the Wookiee did enough damage to kill his opponent, but the player of the Wookiee prefers to tear an arm off instead, as a GM I'm good with that.
garhkal wrote:
For me i see that whole thing being what wookies choose as a mortal wound with a Maim..

I agree with these too. A Wookiee not wanting to kill in a brawling attack but scoring a kill can reduce it to mortally wounded with an arm ripped off (with the victim in shock and bleeding out). I always allow the maim result to avoid killing opponents in any situation it seems possible. My son just turned 9 yesterday and in his campaign, I am actually mandating that his PC can't kill anyone (until the epic final adventures for the campaign). I'm going all GI Joe with TIE pilots always shown surviving the destruction for their ships, etc. I don't want him to enjoy pretending to kill people at this stage.

Darklighter79 wrote:
In d6 Space there is optional rule for killing blow. With the wound system a target must reach Mortally Wounded level with a single attack, or dead level in a single round. Effect is obvious...

The killing blow rule is with the body points option (hit points with wound status effects), so not applicable to Star Wars. It wouldn't make sense in WEG Star Wars for a Mortally Wounded result to kill. If Mortally Wounded is scored in a single blow, the target is... mortally wounded. If a killed result is scored a single blow, the target is killed (That's RAW in 2e). In my game's damage/wound system, if the target already has a wound level and a mortally wounded is scored the result is killed, but that is just how wounds accumulate, not a single blow.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it’s important not to conflate honor with compassion or altruism. Japanese Samurai, for example, are upheld as paragons of honor, but that didn’t stop them from killing or maiming people at the drop of a hat if their duty required it. A social species in an environment like Kashyyyk would depend heavily on mutual cooperation to survive, but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be utterly ruthless and brutal against an external threat.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:29 am    Post subject: Re: Wookies are Known to Do That Reply with quote

"Whill wrote:

The killing blow rule is with the body points option (hit points with wound status effects), so not applicable to Star Wars.

D6 space uses both systems of wounds so isn't it for both?

Quote:
If your gamemaster is using the Wound levels option with Body
Points
, see the appropriate table in the"Damage" chapter to determine
the range of Body Points associated with each Wound level. If your
gamemaster is only using Wounds, you don't need to figure out the Body
Points range; you can put a line through that column if you'd like.

So it's perfectly applicable.

Option 1:
Quote:
Called a killing blow, targets with Body Points must take a damage total equal to 91%[ of the character's maximum Body Points in one blow or 100% of the character's maximum Body Points in a single round.


Option 2:
Quote:
With Wound Levels, the killing blow entails a Mortally Wounded result with one blow or gaining the Dead level in a single round. In either case, use the damage total after subtracting the damage resistance total to determine whether the attack delivered a killing blow.


"Whill wrote:
It wouldn't make sense in WEG Star Wars for a Mortally Wounded result to kill. If Mortally Wounded is scored in a single blow, the target is... mortally wounded.

Would laying on the floor with arms ripped off and blood bursting around qualify for mortally wounded??
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Wookies are Known to Do That Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
Would laying on the floor with arms ripped off and blood bursting around qualify for mortally wounded??

Not sure why I was even asked this question because that was never in question, but I already answered that question anyway...

Earlier, Whill wrote:
A Wookiee not wanting to kill in a brawling attack but scoring a kill can reduce it to mortally wounded with an arm ripped off (with the victim in shock and bleeding out).


"Whill wrote:
It wouldn't make sense in WEG Star Wars for a Mortally Wounded result to kill. If Mortally Wounded is scored in a single blow, the target is... mortally wounded.
Darklighter79 wrote:
Option 2:
Quote:
With Wound Levels, the killing blow entails a Mortally Wounded result with one blow or gaining the Dead level in a single round. In either case, use the damage total after subtracting the damage resistance total to determine whether the attack delivered a killing blow.

That rule doesn't make any sense. So in other words, "If you achieve a 'Mortally Wounded' result in a single blow, the target is not actually mortally wounded. The target is dead." In my game I do skip Mortally Wounded and go straight to Killed for mooks as detailed here, but that is cumulative or single blow damage.

Of course you didn't create the non-sensical D6 Space rule that you are sharing here, but I'm still not sure what that has to do with this thread, the difficulty of and effect of a Wookiee pulling arms out of their sockets. It seems you're saying that a character with their arms ripped off should be mortally wounded, but the D6 Space rule you are suggesting skips Mortally Wounded and goes straight to Dead for single blow damage. So how are you suggesting single blow should be handled differently in Star Wars, and how does that relate to Wookiees ripping arms off?
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point was to show how much damage and in what way should be inflicted in order to achieve this effect, basing on the existing rule. MW level in this case (Wookie attack) would not mean automatically dead. Technically victim can be saved in medical help is provided immediately. Also for droids it is not system catastrophic status. That's it.
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