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Starship Factory Upgrades
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I think coming up with a rough bonus/cost percentage is a good place to start.

Maybe each tier has a 10% or 20% bonus or cost in cargo capacity, although the 1400 with the 80 tons extra is a pretty hefty bonus away from that. Those should be pretty easy to do on the fly for most GMs. Also, I think that rounding the capacity change is probably best for simplicity's sake.

The 1400 was mostly included because of continuity from the original rule. It could just as easily be explained away as a cargo hold expansion.

The Ship of Riddles explanation for the bow mandibles on the Falcon is that they are part of a cargo handling system (in addition to mounting points for ship systems that would otherwise have to be located in the main hull). Basically, there are loading arms stowed on the inside edges of the mandibles that grab crates / barrels / whatever and feed them into the "mouth" on the front end of the Falcon, which leads to a conveyor system that moves cargo into the main holds, then reverses the process when unloading.

I could just as easily scratch out the 1400 and rewrite it as a Cargo Capacity expansion package for characters who are more interested in having the extra space than they are in being able to load and unload their ship more quickly (as though rules for such a thing existed anyway).

Quote:
I think making the credit cost as a percentage of the new value makes sense, the only trouble would be in calculating how that transfers onto the used cost of the vehicle.

Then just apply the base modifier to the Used cost instead of the New.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Percentage of base price is the way to go, for sure. It's consistent with "real world" markets.

The same option on a Rolls Royce is more expensive than on a Mercedes, which in turn is more expensive than on a Ford or a "Lincoln."
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I could just as easily scratch out the 1400 and rewrite it as a Cargo Capacity expansion package for characters who are more interested in having the extra space than they are in being able to load and unload their ship more quickly (as though rules for such a thing existed anyway).

Alternately, I could write up rules for an Automated Cargo Handling Package that comes standard on the YT-1300...
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Alternately, I could write up rules for an Automated Cargo Handling Package that comes standard on the YT-1300...


Something like that could be very useful in a Tramp Freighter game. Since most drop point deliveries give 1 day of pay for loading and unloading the cargo. Something like this is able to load to full capacity in an hour, then the captain is making money.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Something like that could be very useful in a Tramp Freighter game. Since most drop point deliveries give 1 day of pay for loading and unloading the cargo. Something like this is able to load to full capacity in an hour, then the captain is making money.

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking 10% of base price and 10% of Cargo Capacity, but can load or unload containerized cargo (shipping crates or barrels) at a rate of 1 metric ton per minute, with the restriction that it can only be used on the main cargo bays, and not the smuggling compartments.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Raven Redstar wrote:
Something like that could be very useful in a Tramp Freighter game. Since most drop point deliveries give 1 day of pay for loading and unloading the cargo. Something like this is able to load to full capacity in an hour, then the captain is making money.

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking 10% of base price and 10% of Cargo Capacity, but can load or unload containerized cargo (shipping crates or barrels) at a rate of 1 metric ton per minute, with the restriction that it can only be used on the main cargo bays, and not the smuggling compartments.


I like it!
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, based on the upgrades I've listed so far, I think the following are best suited for conversion to a percentage based system:
    Sublight 1
    Sublight 2
    Hyperdrive 1
    Hyperdrive 2
    Hull
    Maneuverability
    Cargo Capacity (Combining Thrust and Cargo Bay Expansion)
    Consumables
    External Cargo
    Cargo Handling
    Luxury 1
    Luxury 2
    Luxury 3
The remaining three should stay at a flat rate and tonnage, due to the nature of the systems not being particularly dependent on the size and cargo capacity of the ship.
    Scout
    Navigation
    Auto-Pilot
The next step would be to go through the list of Aftermarket Systems in GG6 and other sources, as to which would be better suited to percentage or flat rate cost.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With a little research, the Sublight drive and hyperdrive can turn into flat cargo rates, since the weight difference in replacement systems are relatively small from one model to the next one up or we make the weight percentages fairly low. I'm fine with price being a relatively higher percentage for those, though.

4% cargo/10% cost for sublight speed?
8% cargo/15% cost for hyperdrive?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
With a little research, the Sublight drive and hyperdrive can turn into flat cargo rates, since the weight difference in replacement systems are relatively small from one model to the next one up or we make the weight percentages fairly low. I'm fine with price being a relatively higher percentage for those, though.

4% cargo/10% cost for sublight speed?
8% cargo/15% cost for hyperdrive?

I disagree. The main argument against it is that not every ship is going to have the same mass. Without knowing what that mass is, there is no way to know how a drive with a specific amount of thrust will affect a ship's Space value.

For instance, say you have a drive that weighs 12 tons in a YT-1300 that boosts the ship's Space by 1. You can't take that same drive and stick it in an HT-2200 (54.8 meters long with 800 metric tons of Cargo Capacity) and still reasonably expect to get the same performance; the drive just doesn't have the lift-mass ratio to pull it off.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you to a point.

What about with replacement drive systems for aftermarket upgrades? I can definitely see companies making heavy modifications to accommodate heavier duty drive conduits, thrust exhaust, etc... But, using the replacement systems rules, the engine being replaced has a flat tonnage cost. Are you planning on doing away with the aftermarket upgrade system in place?
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CRMcNeill
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Are you planning on doing away with the aftermarket upgrade system in place?

Partially. I'm thinking of reverting to an updated version of the old 1E method, using generic drive types with prices based on percentage. After all, PCs aren't going to go shopping for a drive by name so much as they are by performance characteristics.

I'd also want to add in some spice by adding descriptors to the drive so that not all Space 6 Drives are equal (in price reliability or performance).
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of having different brands with different advantages and quirks.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so, here are the percentage conversions for all of the ones I listed:
    Sublight I
    Effect: +1 to Space
    Cost: 5%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -1%
    Sublight II
    Effect: +2 to Space
    Cost: 10%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -2%

    Hyperdrive I
    Effect: Reduce Hyperdrive Modifier by .5 (Example: x3 to x 2.5)
    Cost: 2.5%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -2%
    Hyperdrive II
    Effect: Reduce Hyperdrive Modifier by 1 (Example: x3 to x2)
    Cost: 5%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -4%

    Hull
    Effect: +1D to Hull
    Cost: 15%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -5%

    Maneuverability
    Effect: +1D to Maneuverability
    Cost: 15%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -1%

    Shields
    Effect: +1D to Shields
    Cost: 4%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -6%

    Sensors
    Effect: +1D to all Sensor Bonuses, and increase all Sensor Ranges by 50% (rounded down)
    Cost: 5%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -5%

    Consumables I
    Effect: Increase Consumables by 50%
    Cost: 3%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -5%
    Consumables II
    Effect: Increase Consumables by 100%
    Cost: 6%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -10%

    Cargo Capacity I
    Effect: Increase Cargo Capacity by 20%, -1 to Space and Maneuverability
    Cost: 5%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: See Effect.
    Cargo Capacity II
    Effect: Increase Cargo Capacity by 40%, -2 to Space and Maneuverability
    Cost: 10%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: See Effect.
    Cargo Capacity III
    Effect: Increase Cargo Capacity by 60%, -3 to Space, 1D to Maneuverability.
    Cost: 15%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: See Effect.

    External Cargo Mounting
    Effect: May carry up to 100% of base Cargo Capacity (not including any Cargo Capacity Upgrades) in Containers strapped to the Hull, -1 Space and Maneuverability for every 33% of External Cargo Capacity used.
    Cost: 2% (Pods sold separately, generally 5%)
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -5%

    Cargo Handling
    Effect: May automatically load / unload containerized cargo (in barrels or shipping crates) at a rate of 1 metric ton per minute.
    Cost: 10%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -10%
    Note: May only be used to load / unload the main hold. Cargo carried externally or in smuggling compartments must be unloaded by other means.

I'm still not quite sure how I want to handle the Luxury Option, but based on what we discussed so far, it would look like so.
    Luxury (Basic)
    Effect:
    -Add +2 to Persuasion and Bargain rolls made against NPCs aboard ship
    -Award 1 bonus CP to characters who live aboard ship between missions.
    -Treat as a "No Frills" Liner (500 credits per passenger) for calculating fares.
    Cost: 10%*
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -5%
    Luxury (Advanced)
    Effect:
    -Add +1D+1 to Persuasion and Bargain rolls made against NPCs aboard ship
    -Award 2 bonus CP to characters who live aboard ship between missions.
    -Treat as a Luxury Liner (1,000 credits per passenger) for calculating fares.
    Cost: 20%*
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -10%
    Luxury (Extreme)
    Effect:
    -Add +2D to Persuasion and Bargain rolls made against NPCs aboard ship
    -Award 3 bonus CP to characters who live aboard ship between missions.
    -Treat as an Ultra-Luxury Liner (1,500 credits per passenger) for calculating fares.
    Cost: 50%*
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -25%

    *When calculating the Cost, multiply the resulting Credit value by .02 (2%). The resulting number is the Monthly Upkeep for the Luxury Upgrade. This cost must be paid in full every month to keep the music current, quality foods in stock, worn pillows replaced and any recreation facilities maintained. After any month where this expense is not paid, the Luxury Level of the ship is reduced one step (Extreme to Advanced, Advanced to Basic, and Basic to Typical Starship, with a resulting reduction in bonuses) until proper upgrading is again established (including recouping the cost of all missed months of maintenance). This is in addition to normal maintenance and overhaul costs for the ship's systems.

    Example: Lando Calrissian has installed an Advanced Luxury Upgrade on his YT-1300 (with amenities including a cloak room. Yes, Whill, that's for you). The base cost of a YT-1300 is 100,000. The 20% modifier for the Advanced Luxury Upgrade results in a Price of 20,000 credits. Multiplying the Price by 2% results in a Monthly Upkeep of 400 credits per month.

The remaining three should stay at a flat rate and tonnage, due to the nature of the systems not being particularly dependent on the size and cargo capacity of the ship.

    Utility (Tractor Beam and Universal Docking Collar)
    Fire Control: 2D
    Range:
    --Space: 1-2/5/10
    --Atmosphere: 100m-200m/500m/1km
    Strength: 3D
    Cost: 10,000 credits
    Weight: 5 metric tons
    Note: See Pirates & Privateers for details on Universal Docking Collar.

    Navigation
    Effect: -5 to all Astrogation Difficulties
    Cost: 2,000 credits

    Autopilot
    Crew: Reduce Crew by 50% (Ship may also fly itself at 4D Space Transports)
    Cost: 2,000 credits

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And just because I'm on a roll, here are some conversions for After-Market Equipment from Tramp Freighters:
    Shields 1D
    Cost: 4%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -6%
    Shields 2D
    Cost: 10%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -8%
    Shields 3D
    Cost: 20%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -10%

    Solid Fuel Convertor
    Cost: 8%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -5%
    Scoops
    Cost: 15%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -15%
    Solar Convertors
    Cost: 12%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -10%

    Environmental Convertor
    Cost: 4%
    Cargo Capacity Modifier: -4%

Any system not listed uses the listed price and tonnage, as per the RAW.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
*When calculating the Cost, multiply the resulting Credit value by .02 (2%). The resulting number is the Monthly Upkeep for the Luxury Upgrade. This cost must be paid in full every month to keep the music current, quality foods in stock, worn pillows replaced and any recreation facilities maintained. After any month where this expense is not paid, the Luxury Level of the ship is reduced one step (Extreme to Advanced, Advanced to Basic, and Basic to Typical Starship, with a resulting reduction in bonuses) until proper upgrading is again established (including recouping the cost of all missed months of maintenance). This is in addition to normal maintenance and overhaul costs for the ship's systems.


This is awesome!

Overall, everything else seems to be coming together pretty well.
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