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Damage/Wound & Healing modifications
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I recall something like this coming up before, but I can't seem to track it down...

I do remember reading somewhere of the suggestion of using Stamina to soak Damage instead of Strength, and that the idea got shot down in short order (and rightly so, IMO).

But if D6 Space generated Strength Damage by halving the character's Strength Attribute or Lifting Skill Dice, perhaps the same could be applied to Stamina? Specifically, have a character's Damage soak be based on either Strength or half of their Stamina skill.

I don't think that is unreasonable. The benefit wouldn't kick in until stamina got to more than double the Strength attribute, so someone would really have to put a lot into advancing stamina.

I currently use the stamina skill value to resist the "affecting" stun accumulation instead of Strength. I also have an advantage available for purchase during char gen that increases Damage resistance (for normal and stun damage) by +1 pip.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I don't think that is unreasonable. The benefit wouldn't kick in until stamina got to more than double the Strength attribute, so someone would really have to put a lot into advancing stamina.

That was my thought as well, but I couldn't recall the specifics of the earlier conversation.

Quote:
I currently use the stamina skill value to resist the "affecting" stun accumulation instead of Strength. I also have an advantage available for purchase during char gen that increases Damage resistance (for normal and stun damage) by +1 pip.

Interesting. I'd like to see the specifics of that.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
I currently use the stamina skill value to resist the "affecting" stun accumulation instead of Strength. I also have an advantage available for purchase during char gen that increases Damage resistance (for normal and stun damage) by +1 pip.

Interesting. I'd like to see the specifics of that.

Here's RAW, R&E p. 97:

Quote:
Stunned characters suffer a penalty of -1D to skill and attribute rolls for the rest of the round and for the next round. A stun no longer penalizes a character after the second round, but it is still "affecting" him for half an hour unless the character rests for one minute. If a character is being "affected" from a number of stuns equal to the number before the "D" for the character’s Strength, the character is knocked unconscious for 2D minutes. A character making an Easy first aid total can revive an unconscious character.

I just substitute stamina for Strength...

Whill wrote:
A stunned character suffers a penalty of -1D to skill and attribute rolls for the rest of the round and for the next round. A stun no longer penalizes a character after the second round, but it is still "affecting" him for half an hour unless the character rests for one minute. If a character is being "affected" from a number of stuns equal to the number before the "D" of the character's stamina, the character is knocked unconscious for 2D minutes. Another character making an Easy first aid roll can revive a character rendered unconscious (by stun accumulation) early. A character who is unconscious for at least 2 minutes is no longer being "affected" by any prior stuns.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That reminds me of something. A common argument is that Stun setting on Blasters is overpowered.

What if we treated Stun like an Ion weapon, where any damage that beat the soak roll by a given amount inflicts multiple Stun results, which stacked like Ionization damage? Then, once you hit 0D Strength / Stamina, that's when you get knocked out.

EDIT: Like so.
    Basically, throw out the "treat any result more serious than Stunned as Unconscious for 2D minutes," and replace it with:
      Stun Damage > Strength / Stamina Roll = Effect
      0-3 = 1 Stun
      4-8 = 2 Stuns
      9-12 = 3 Stuns
      13-16 = 4 Stuns
      17+ = One additional Stun for every 4 points of Damage

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
That reminds me of something. A common argument is that Stun setting on Blasters is overpowered.

What if we treated Stun like an Ion weapon, where any damage that beat the soak roll by a given amount inflicts multiple Stun results, which stacked like Ionization damage? Then, once you hit 0D Strength / Stamina, that's when you get knocked out.

EDIT: Like so.
    Basically, throw out the "treat any result more serious than Stunned as Unconscious for 2D minutes," and replace it with:
      Stun Damage > Strength / Stamina Roll = Effect
      0-3 = 1 Stun
      4-8 = 2 Stuns
      9-12 = 3 Stuns
      13-16 = 4 Stuns
      17+ = One additional Stun for every 4 points of Damage


I like that edit, though i'd keep it where 16+ is ko'ed. Similar to how ion damage at 16" is 'shut-down'.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but most characters aren't going to make it that far, and an Esoomian with 7D Strength should, IMO, be more resistant to Stun than, say, a Wookiee with 5D...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Abbreviations for the Character Damage Chart and/or Wound Status on character sheets

D = Damage roll
R = Damage Resistance roll (strength to resist damage)
2D = 2 times the Damage roll
- = no effect
S = Stunned
W = Wounded
W2 = Severely Wounded ("wounded twice")
I = Incapacitated
I(c) = Incapacitated (conscious)
M = Mortally Wounded
M(s) = Mortally Wounded (stabilized)
K = Killed/Dead
U = Unconscious (Stun Damage)
U+A = Unconscious with Stun Aftereffect
W+U = Wounded and Unconscious
normal damage / stun damage

CHARACTER DAMAGE CHART

R≥2D . - / -
.R≥D . S / -

.D>R . Wound Status
. 1-7. . W / S
.8-10. . I / U
11-14. M / U+A
. 15+ . K / W+U

http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=161842#161842

CRMcNeill wrote:
That reminds me of something. A common argument is that Stun setting on Blasters is overpowered.

What if we treated Stun like an Ion weapon, where any damage that beat the soak roll by a given amount inflicts multiple Stun results, which stacked like Ionization damage? Then, once you hit 0D Strength / Stamina, that's when you get knocked out.

EDIT: Like so.
    Basically, throw out the "treat any result more serious than Stunned as Unconscious for 2D minutes," and replace it with:
      Stun Damage > Strength / Stamina Roll = Effect
      0-3 = 1 Stun
      4-8 = 2 Stuns
      9-12 = 3 Stuns
      13-16 = 4 Stuns
      17+ = One additional Stun for every 4 points of Damage

My system already addresses that argument about stun damage. I moved the first unconscious result down to correlate to incapacitated instead of RAW's wounded.

In RAW and my system, Stunned results don't stack. So if you are stunned and you are stunned again, you are still just stunned. Of course if you were stunned in the previous round and stunned again, the end time for the stun was been extended. And of course stuns "affecting" a character do accumulate towards that unconscious result for getting stunned too many times in the same time period without resting.

Regarding your suggestion, it is better than RAW.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Regarding your suggestion, it is better than RAW.

Such high praise is a rare thing indeed. Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
Regarding your suggestion, it is better than RAW.

Such high praise is a rare thing indeed. Laughing

It's not that rare. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:59 pm    Post subject: Stamina-related tweaks Reply with quote

Go back to the beginning of the thread.


I've decided to tweak the stamina skill to include a couple more "endurance" aspects that are handled by base Strength in RAW (R&E/D6 Space)...


Quote:
Original Damage/Wound System mods

D6 Space already changed the non-stabilized mortally wounded ticking clock roll from a flat 2D for all characters to the character's Strength and I had adopted that for my game. I just tweaked it further to stamina instead of base Strength. In my game, mortally wounded only ever applies to PCs and important NPCs, so this tweak won't do anything to keep mooks alive any longer.


Quote:
"Half" Strength Damage

Brawling Damage Options (Half-Strength Normal Damage or Full-Strength Stun Damage)

No changes here. Regarding the stun option for brawling, stun accumulation being resisted by stamina was already a part of the first post linked above.


Quote:
Healing and Medicine

I updated the healing rolls from base Strength to the stamina skill.


CRMcNeill wrote:
I do remember reading somewhere of the suggestion of using Stamina to soak Damage instead of Strength, and that the idea got shot down in short order (and rightly so, IMO).

But if D6 Space generated Strength Damage by halving the character's Strength Attribute or Lifting Skill Dice, perhaps the same could be applied to Stamina? Specifically, have a character's Damage soak be based on either Strength or half of their Stamina skill.

I decided to officially go with this. Here is a chart based on my Lifting/Strength Damage chart:


Damage Resistance Options

A character's Damage Resistance is either their base Strength or the "half" stamina value from the chart below, whichever is higher.

............... Damage
Stamina. .Resistance

. 0D . . . . . . 0D
. 0D+1 . . . . 0D
. 0D+2 . . . . 0D+1
. 1D . . . . . . 0D+1
. 1D+1 . . . . 0D+2
. 1D+2 . . . . 0D+2
. 2D . . . . . . 1D
. 2D+1 . . . . 1D
. 2D+2 . . . . 1D+1
. 3D . . . . . . 1D+1
. 3D+1 . . . . 1D+2
. 3D+2 . . . . 1D+2
. 4D . . . . . . 2D
. 4D+1 . . . . 2D
. 4D+2 . . . . 2D+1
. 5D . . . . . . 2D+1
. 5D+1 . . . . 2D+2
. 5D+2 . . . . 2D+2
. 6D . . . . . . 3D
. 6D+1 . . . . 3D
. 6D+2 . . . . 3D+1
. 7D . . . . . . 3D+1
. 7D+1 . . . . 3D+2
. 7D+2 . . . . 3D+2
. 8D . . . . . . 4D
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Argentsaber
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used a startlingly similar system for a while now. One major difference to consider is that I allow "wounded" to happen once for each full die of strength.. so your Wookiee might take quite a beating before going down. I also allow willpower to overcome additional die penalties from additional "woundings" (though the first die is always in effect outside control pain or similar). Not sure if this helps; just my two centi-creds.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Argentsaber wrote:
I've used a startlingly similar system for a while now. One major difference to consider is that I allow "wounded" to happen once for each full die of strength.. so your Wookiee might take quite a beating before going down. I also allow willpower to overcome additional die penalties from additional "woundings" (though the first die is always in effect outside control pain or similar). Not sure if this helps; just my two centi-creds.

Allowing one wound for every 1D of Strength would seem to make some sense. I wouldn't like that though because most mooks would have wounded twice and my system reduces them all to wounded once (if mooks are wounded twice they bypass that go straight to incapacitated). In my system, PCs and significant NPCs can be wounded twice. Everyone else gets one wounded. It's easier that way because mooks need to go down faster. You can always add more mooks.

And like you point out yourself, strong characters become a lot more powerful in the game. It is not so easy to wound a Wookiees in the first place, but a Wookiee PC might need to be wounded six times to be incapacitated. So to me it doesn't seem that balanced with getting an incapacitated result in a single attack. Strong characters (mook or not) get the benefit up front of having a lower chance of getting any wound status. Your system gives strong characters an additional benefit on the back end too.

But of course, whatever works for you and your game! I'm really curious, in what ways is your system "startlingly similar" to mine? Perhaps there are ways you haven't shared yet?
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Last edited by Whill on Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: Damage/Wound system modifications Reply with quote

Damage/Wound system

Quote:
CHARACTER DAMAGE CHART

R≥2D . /
.R≥D . S /

.D>R . Wound Status
. 1-7. . W / S
.8-10. . I / U
11-14. M / U+A
. 15+ . K / W+U

So I'm considering letting my 1e influence go and moving stunned down to D>R (to be more like RAW) because I want my item/weapon/protection/armor/droid/vehicle/spaceship damage charts to all share the same overall structure. My wound system is otherwise fine, but a big factor was not wanting organic characters to "soak" blaster bolts. You just don't see that in the movies. I think that was what the creators of 1e were thinking about too, and they had no "no effect" on their chart, but that was for any type of attack because they wanted one single rule for simplicity's sake. If your damage resistance roll was higher than the damage roll, you were stunned. That is still being generous because you don't even see that with blaster hits in the films. Heroes are wounded, and mooks, even mooks in armor, go down (presumably incapacitated or worse in game terms).

So I have a simple idea. Just have a weapon-specific rule for blaster weapons that the minimum damage for any hit is stunned. No soak for blasters. Anything else, you can soak it if you roll high enough. That would make me feel better about moving stunned down. OK, maybe no soak for lightsabers too.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A potential alternative would be to allow one Wound slot for every 2D of Strength. That way, a high-Str character would have to have 6D or more to pick up the third slot.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
A potential alternative would be to allow one Wound slot for every 2D of Strength. That way, a high-Str character would have to have 6D or more to pick up the third slot.

That would be a better alternative if I wanted to have a variable number of wound statuses based on Strength, but a PC (or important villain) with only 2D+2 Strength would only have one wounded. I personally am committed to varying the number of wound statuses based on important character or mook. That way an important character with only 2D+2 Strength would have wounded twice and mortally wounded, while a mook of any Strength would only have W, I, and K.

What do you think of my post directly above yours? Blaster weapons have minimum damage of stunned? No soak for blasters, to better capture the feel of the movies? (And I mean normal damage setting not having soak. Blasters set for stun still have the 'no effect' damage result possible.)
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