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Urban Stormtrooper ?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yora wrote:
Whill wrote:
Yora wrote:
When I saw this thread, I was immediately thinking about Imperial Commandos/Storm Commandos/Shadow Scouts. (Why so many names? Did several people come up with basically the same idea without checking if it already exists?)

https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper/Legends#Specialized_stormtroopers

https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper#Specialized_stormtroopers

Simply put, yes. There are dozens of stormtrooper types. It's nuts.

And amazingly, the vast majority have only a single appearance listed. Which is almost always Star Wars Galaxies, Jedi Knight, or The Force Unleashed.

Right. Video games have served as inspiration for my SWU's stormtrooper corps in just a couple cases, but by and large I ignore video games continuity.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just thought I'd post these here from the "Solo RPG" Book.

Quote:
Type: Imperial Patrol Stormtrooper
Dexterity: 2D
Blaster: 4D, Dodge: 4D, Brawling Parry: 4D, Vehicle Blasters: 4D+2
Knowledge: 2D
Perception: 2D
Strength: 2D
Brawling: 3D
Mechanical: 2D
Repulsorlift Operation: 4D
Technical: 2D
Move: 10
Equipment: EC-17 hold-out blaster (3D), Imperial Patrol Stormtrooper Armour (+1D vs Energy, +2D vs Physical, +1D to Repulsorlift Operation),

C-PH patrol speeder bike
Name: Aratech Repulsor Company C-PH patrol speeder bike
Type: Speeder Bike
Scale: Speeder
Length: 4.12 meters
Height: 1.37 meters
Skill: Repulsorlift operation: Speeder Bike
Crew: 1
Passengers: 0
Cargo Capacity: 20kg
Cover: 1/4
Altitude Range: Ground level-20m
Maneuverability: 3D
Move: 140; 400kmh
Body Strength: 4D
Equipment:
Retractable illuminator lamp on an articulated mount
Weapons:
Forward fixed BlasTech Industries Ax-25 blaster cannon
Fire Arc: Front
Skill: Vehicle Blasters
Fire Control: 1D
Range: 3-50/100/200
Damage: 5D
Description: The C-PH patrol speeder bike, also known as the Imperial patrol speeder or as the interceptor speeder bike, was a model of speeder bike used by patrol stormtroopers of the Galactic Empire in Coronet City on Corellia.
The speeder bike was designed to convey power over agility, although it possessed both due to its advanced built-in repulsorlift maneuverability systems. Its sturdy shape was capable of withstanding any high-speed collisions with other vehicles. In addition, it has onboard sophisticated electronics that alert the driver of any incoming traffic. Unlike other speeder bikes, the C-PH lacks the outrigger steering vanes, instead making use of a forward-facing bank of repulsorfield vector guides for maneuvering. Its main armament is a forward fixed BlasTech Industries Ax-25 blaster cannon. Other features included a retractable illuminator lamp on an articulated mount, control handle rail slots on the sides of the bike, rocker-pivoted foot pedals that control the speed and altitude, an acceleration pad with positive traction field near the seat, and the power cell access panel near the rear.

Capsule: Patrol stormtroopers, also known simply as patrol troopers, were a specialized variant of the Galactic Empire's stormtroopers. As the Empire reinforced its hold on planets across the galaxy, local defense forces were being supplemented and eventually completely replaced by stormtroopers. To cover distances across sprawling settlements and cities, patrol stormtroopers policed the streets aboard their swift C-PH patrol speeder bikes and were armed with EC-17 hold-out blasters. Their armor contained various advanced measures that allowed them to conduct their duties on Coronet's ports. In particular, their helmets possessed an enlarged dome that allowed them access to enhanced imaging electronics, and the overall armor, which shared similarities to the Scout Troopers, allowed for greater movement than regular stormtrooper armor. In addition, they received real-time traffic data, construction, and other potential obstacles from their headquarters via an in-helmet connection, allowing them to easily navigate various congested city environments.


I kinda feel like these guys should have Law Enforcement in knowledge, and maybe Search and Investigation in Perception.

*edited speeder stat to fall in line with All-out speed rating*
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:

In the original trilogy, we get no indication that his rule was perceived as oppressive, other than from the rebels themselves, notwithstanding the little business on Tatooine that set Luke on the the heroic path (such an operation is likely to be "classified" and withheld from the galactic public at large).


Yes we do get an impression that the galaxy at large is not a fan of the Empire. Before Luke's family is reduced to ashes, Luke-the-random-farmer says he hates the empire. In ESB we get some comments regarding Bespin that indicate that the empire is pretty bad (hence the desire for an entire city-state/mining company to be running under the table) and when they hear that the city is under Imperial control, suddenly there is panic in the streets of Cloud City. There's probably other examples I'm not thinking of. You can come up with plausible rationalizations for why the above prove nothing, but in the space of a 2 hour action movie, those are the tools a director has to emphatically state "this empire is hated and feared".

Imperial urban troops don't necessarily need any of the same things we do. Any given problem that exists in urban warfare today can be so radically different in Star Wars as to use radically different solutions.

I think a lot of our modern military specializations would simply be handled by droids and other technology. Stormtroopers don't even know their own way around bases, they follow mouse droids. In real life, technology is constantly replacing human skill* and overdoing that reliance on tech is part of what makes the empire the badguys in George Lucas's mind in the 1970's and 1980's.

*When I hear someone complain that kids these days need calculators to do math, I point out that they can't even knap their own stone blades, they have to buy metal ones from the city.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's my understanding that MOUT is one of the more manpower intensive operations a military can engage in, in that urban warfare generally results in some of the highest casualty rates. With that in mind, as well as what we see stormtroopers doing in the films (boarding starships has a lot of parallels to indoor CQB and room-clearing), I would think the Empire would just use regular stormtroopers for this duty. All that would really be needed is giving them the sorts of specialized equipment needed to operate under these conditions: breaching equipment, ballistic shields, riot blasters, etc. If you need the sorts of irregular or special operations support that the OP describes, just bring in the storm commandos.

I've always thought that "regular" stormtroopers should be on the same skill level as sandtroopers and snowtroopers, with each sub-set specializing in a different type of environment, in much the same way as Rebel SpecForces.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, as an extrapolation of the above, I went through the main stats for the three main stormtrooper types (Regular, Sand- and Snow-) and generated a compiled stat:
    DEX 3D
    -Blaster 5D
    -Blaster Artillery 4D
    -Brawling 4D
    -Dodge 4D
    -Grenade 4D
    -Missile Weapons 4D
    -Vehicle Blasters 4D
    KNOW 2D
    -Survival 4D
    MECH 2D
    PER 2D
    -Search 3D+1
    STR 3D
    TECH 2D

    In addition, a Stormtrooper will have one of the following specializations, based on their type:

    -Survival: Desert 5D
    -Survival: Arctic 5D
    -Survival: Wilderness 5D
    -Search: Urban 5D*

    *I went with Search: Urban rather than Survival: Urban because in a city, there isn't really a need to locate basic sustenance or shelter. City combat is more geared toward reading people and assessing potential threats.
The idea is that, rather than making the Standard Stormtrooper inferior to Sand- and Snowtroopers, they're all essentially equal, apart from environmental specific training. As with SpecForces, a stormtrooper unit at, say, the battalion level and up, is composed of equal parts of sub-units that are trained in specific environments, so one company each has additional training in survival and operation in that type. The terrain type will determine which unit "takes point" in an operation. Armor and equipment will be issued on the basis of the environment being deployed into, not what sort of trooper they are.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think, regarding the sand and snow troops, there is something to be said for the ones onscreen being better than average. Those are ones Darth Vader is using directly for very high importance missions. So the best ones got sent to Tatooine, accompaned him personally on Hoth, etc. etc.

Being as that "regular" stormtrooper armor can protect you from space, it should be more than enough for desert, snow, or whatever usage. Any regular statted stormtrooper unit can deploy to arctic conditions in normal armor and be just fine. But the units that go out of their way to wear the sandtrooper or snowtrooper uniform are hard, elite units. Hence the different stats.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
I think, regarding the sand and snow troops, there is something to be said for the ones onscreen being better than average. Those are ones Darth Vader is using directly for very high importance missions. So the best ones got sent to Tatooine, accompanied him personally on Hoth, etc. etc.

Being as that "regular" stormtrooper armor can protect you from space, it should be more than enough for desert, snow, or whatever usage. Any regular statted stormtrooper unit can deploy to arctic conditions in normal armor and be just fine. But the units that go out of their way to wear the sandtrooper or snowtrooper uniform are hard, elite units. Hence the different stats.

I'd say that the troopers deployed from either of Darth Vader's personal Star Destroyers would be elite regardless, and would probably have stats above and beyond what I posted.

Besides, there has always been some dissatisfaction with the stormtrooper stats as written. Giving the standard stormtrooper a slight bump so that it is roughly on par with the special-environment troops rectifies that issue.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Just thought I'd post these here from the "Solo RPG" Book.

Quote:
Type: Imperial Patrol Stormtrooper
Dexterity: 2D
Blaster: 4D, Dodge: 4D, Brawling Parry: 4D, Vehicle Blasters: 4D+2
Knowledge: 2D Law enforcement 3d+2, Bureaucracy 3d, investigation 3d
Perception: 2D Search 4d
Strength: 2D
Brawling: 3D
Mechanical: 2D
Repulsorlift Operation: 4D
Technical: 2D
Move: 10
Equipment: EC-17 hold-out blaster (3D), Imperial Patrol Stormtrooper Armour (+1D vs Energy, +2D vs Physical, +1D to Repulsorlift Operation),
..snip..


I kinda feel like these guys should have Law Enforcement in knowledge, and maybe Search and Investigation in Perception.


Not just those, but Bureaucracy as well. See above in itallics, for what i feel they should be at.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Raven Redstar wrote:
Just thought I'd post these here from the "Solo RPG" Book.

Quote:
Type: Imperial Patrol Stormtrooper
Dexterity: 2D
Blaster: 4D, Dodge: 4D, Brawling Parry: 4D, Vehicle Blasters: 4D+2
Knowledge: 2D Law enforcement 3d+2, Bureaucracy 3d, investigation 3d
Perception: 2D Search 4d
Strength: 2D
Brawling: 3D
Mechanical: 2D
Repulsorlift Operation: 4D
Technical: 2D
Move: 10
Equipment: EC-17 hold-out blaster (3D), Imperial Patrol Stormtrooper Armour (+1D vs Energy, +2D vs Physical, +1D to Repulsorlift Operation),
..snip..


I kinda feel like these guys should have Law Enforcement in knowledge, and maybe Search and Investigation in Perception.


Not just those, but Bureaucracy as well. See above in itallics, for what i feel they should be at.


I agree about Bureaucracy. I'm updating my home stats now.

There are some shenanigans happening on Phaeda in my current chapter, and I figured I'd use these guys for an Imperial Occupied world.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made a minor adjustment to the bike's speed rating, to bring it in line with the vehicle's top speed. Move of 330 calculates out to an all-out score of 950 km/h.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:


Besides, there has always been some dissatisfaction with the stormtrooper stats as written. Giving the standard stormtrooper a slight bump so that it is roughly on par with the special-environment troops rectifies that issue.


I think it depends on how advanced your PC's are. However you are onto something semi-official. In the miniatures game, the "snowtrooper" and "Hoth rebel" were usually represented by normal figures. Their stats were just used if you needed to represent "better" troops, as the book explicitly stated that they weren't necessarily veterans of Hoth. If you wanted a smaller better force, you used snowtrooper stats regardless of the models and scenery in use. So applying the same thing to the RPG makes sense to me.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRM and TaunTaun Scout are generally correct about the way things "should" work from a logistical standpoint.

However, this touches on one of my "gripes" about the way SWU military forces are organized.

In "reality" you don't have such minor distinctions between troop types in terms of record qualifications. Rather, there are various additional skills that individuals may acquire, but may never actually use i their careers. Airborne qualification, for example, may be acquired by almost any soldier, but that soldier only has a chance at participating in an airborne operation if he is in an airborne unit.

Likewise, a soldier in an airborne unit may promote into a non-airborne duty position in another unit.

That being said, I have simply acquiesced to the presence of a billion different specialties in SWU military forces because if I wanted to make it more "realistic," then stormtroopers and rebel troopers, etc would have far more robust skill sets than what most rules writers or GMs would want to deal with.

For example, an infantryman would have at a minimum 4D stamina, and his willpower would most likely be higher than that (in "reality" the only way to increase stamina is to succeed at enough willpower checks when your stamina fails).

An argument could even be made that wilderness troops have plenty of law enforcement skill because they are effectively park rangers/forest rangers, etc.

Now, whether you go with a fully despotic empire or one that adheres to the rule of (some kind of) law, stormtroopers being the enforcers would require them to at least be able to articulate which statutes they are enforcing at any given time, even if for no other reason so as to claim/retain jurisdiction from other branches of the empire (individual commanders will want full credit for their accomplishments).
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
I think it depends on how advanced your PC's are. However you are onto something semi-official. In the miniatures game, the "snowtrooper" and "Hoth rebel" were usually represented by normal figures. Their stats were just used if you needed to represent "better" troops, as the book explicitly stated that they weren't necessarily veterans of Hoth. If you wanted a smaller better force, you used snowtrooper stats regardless of the models and scenery in use. So applying the same thing to the RPG makes sense to me.

A simple solution would be to generate some decent base stats and then apply a quality modifier to the skills, such as +1D for Veteran, +2D for Elite, etc. Something along those lines.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a nice expedient way to do it. Expanding on the idea, you might say that some skills improve at a slower rate, such that veterans get +1D on primary skills (GM's discretion), +2 on secondary skills, and +1 on minor skills within the skill suite common to that troop type.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
That's a nice expedient way to do it. Expanding on the idea, you might say that some skills improve at a slower rate, such that veterans get +1D on primary skills (GM's discretion), +2 on secondary skills, and +1 on minor skills within the skill suite common to that troop type.

Alternately, +1D to primary skills, +2 to secondary, and +1 to Attribute.
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