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Your eyes can deceive you...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Ahh. gotcha. That's an interesting angle to take.. Does it apply to other things?? like the example i used? What other 'tech based/non-skill based bonuses don't work' with spending a FP?

Yes, I apply to other things. In general, no technologically-based bonus dice to skill rolls in the round an FP is used.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Ahh. gotcha. That's an interesting angle to take.. Does it apply to other things?? like the example i used? What other 'tech based/non-skill based bonuses don't work' with spending a FP?

Yes, I apply to other things. In general, no technologically-based bonus dice to skill rolls in the round an FP is used.

Makes sense, but I can see some issues. Does it, for instance, apply to a starship's Maneuverability dice? It doesn't seem realistic that a YT-1300 and an A-Wing would have the same effective Maneuverability (by ignoring the technology based bonus provided by the ship's own systems) just because the pilot spent a FP.

EDIT: Another example: I use Auto-Fire Dice to represent Rapid-Fire weaponry. If a gunner spends a FP while firing a repeating weapon, does he lose the Auto-Fire dice (which is also a technological bonus)?
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Pel
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless he had some sort of technological affinity (mechu deru or whatever Anakin Solo's power was called) I'd say the FP only affects the character's aim and not the weapon itself. The blaster will still do xD+y damage per hit, unless you're channelling the Force into the weapon.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pel wrote:
Unless he had some sort of technological affinity (mechu deru or whatever Anakin Solo's power was called) I'd say the FP only affects the character's aim and not the weapon itself. The blaster will still do xD+y damage per hit, unless you're channelling the Force into the weapon.

Or if someone's say using a vibro-sword, the swords "+2d+2" not adding into the wielder's double Str, when he's on a FP.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pel wrote:
Unless he had some sort of technological affinity (mechu deru or whatever Anakin Solo's power was called) I'd say the FP only affects the character's aim and not the weapon itself. The blaster will still do xD+y damage per hit, unless you're channelling the Force into the weapon.

Agreed, although applying the Accuracy Damage rule from RoE would still result in a nice bump to Damage by dint of the shooter managing to hit a particularly vulnerable point on the target.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Or if someone's say using a vibro-sword, the swords "+2d+2" not adding into the wielder's double Str, when he's on a FP.

That, IMO, would depend greatly on exactly which roll the character is boosting with the FP. If he's going for a super-powerful swing, doubling the Str roll, and then adding the weapon damage to it would be appropriate. Of course, for a mundane weapon on a swing like that, I'd probably require that the weapon itself soak a damage roll from the force of the blow.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one is saying an FP doubles technology dice. The main modification statement was that when an FP is used for starship gunnery, Fire Control dice are not added at all (not even normal un-doubled).

Luke turning off his targeting computer does not jive with RAW. So I thought that no one in the game should get the benefit of fire control dice when they spend an FP.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
No one is saying an FP doubles technology dice. The main modification statement was that when an FP is used for starship gunnery, Fire Control dice are not added at all (not even normal un-doubled).

Luke turning off his targeting computer does not jive with RAW. So I thought that no one in the game should get the benefit of fire control dice when they spend an FP.

I would suggest that a better dividing line would be that a "conscious" Force user (as in, someone who is basing their bonus off of their Sense dice, as opposed to Fire Control) may not make use of any Fire Control bonus, but that an "unconscious" Force user (as in, a non-FS PC who spends a FP on his Starship Gunnery roll) would still be able to add his FC dice on the back end of the doubled Gunnery roll.

Some mechanism would need to be used to determine what sort of bonus the Jedi gets, though. In the past, I suggested something along the lines of a Piloting Sense power, like a generalized version of Lightsaber Combat, but applicable to Mechanical Skills instead of Dexterity. Perhaps roll Sense against the base Difficulty, then get +1 to accuracy for every 2 points of success. So then the question would become whether or not the Sense-generated bonus is tacked on before or after accounting for the FP...
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Or if someone's say using a vibro-sword, the swords "+2d+2" not adding into the wielder's double Str, when he's on a FP.

That, IMO, would depend greatly on exactly which roll the character is boosting with the FP. If he's going for a super-powerful swing, doubling the Str roll, and then adding the weapon damage to it would be appropriate. Of course, for a mundane weapon on a swing like that, I'd probably require that the weapon itself soak a damage roll from the force of the blow.


That's why one of the HR's i have in regards TO melee weapons is that you can Always roll above their 'max damage' value. Like most vibro-daggers are normally capped at 6d. giving 35 as the 'max damage value'. BUT ANY Damage you roll over that, (like say you rolled 8d), would count as damage vs the daggers 2d body rating..
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Argentsaber
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
atgxtg wrote:
I think Whill is onto something.

I think orginally, when the d6 RPG was written, Luke's shot of the Death Star was indeed an example of a PC using a Force Point.

CRMcNeill wrote:
I think atgxtg had a good idea early on, in that the Force users should get either a bonus from Fire Control or a boost from Sense, but not both. This both fits with the canon and helps alleviate one aspect of power creep by keeping the character from stacking the two.

I feel that is quite reasonable. I've always not permitted Fire Control to be used with FPs (for Force or non-Force characters).


This is what I do as well.. and seems to be the most common house rule amongst first ed games I am aware of.
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