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Star Wars art that begs for stats.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
Dredwulf60 wrote:
Another one I've trotted out from time to time is the abnormal electromagnetic or gravitic phenomenon of certain planets made repulsorlifts dangerous to use...or wore them out faster making them less economical.
I like tectonically unstable and/or and fluctuating gravity fields.

My biggest hang-up there is wondering how a fluctuating gravity field could actually happen naturally. Certainly it's possible in an artificial gravity environment, but in a naturally occuring gravity field, wouldn't it necessitate a drastic change in the mass creating the gravity field itself? And considering the other things that come along with drastic changes in mass - explicitly, sudden loss of a huge portion of a planet or stellar body - whether or not one's repulsorlift works properly is very likely the least of your problems.

It would also seem to be a double standard, since starships equipped with repulsorlifts seem to function quite well in gravity fields of varying intensity. And if starships can moderate the strength of their repulsorlifts to match changes in local gravity, it would seem to follow that repulsorlift vehicles could do the same, or could at least be modified / upgraded to do so rather than switching to a completely new vehicle kept around for those rare occasions when it might be needed.

Another possibility is that the local geologic makeup of the ground could be disruptive to repulsorlift operations, such as crystalline pockets that react negatively with the vehicle's drive field...

Quote:
Avoidance of detection could be another reason.

The drawback there is that a known weakness of CGTs is they lose effectiveness when trying to detect a specific gravity field while within another, larger gravity field, and that only the largest, most sensitive (and most expensive) arrays were even halfway useful within a planet's gravity well. Dedicated Energy Receptors would likely be more effective, IMO.

It's also worth mentioning that, in a universe where acceleration compensators can reduce or negate thousands of G's worth of acceleration in space, even non-repulsorlift ground vehicles could take advantage of low-powered versions of the same system to protect occupants from sudden shocks, violent maneuvering or crashes

Quote:
I rationalize that by thinking that a repulsor craft just sitting has much less inertia and little to no friction compared to a ground vehicle.

I think that ties in with my suggestion from above, that repulsorlifts require energy to maintain stability, whereas most ground-effect vehicles do so simply by dint of weight and gravity holding them to the ground.

Quote:
There is also the fact that some mines are triggered by repulsorfields. So not triggering those types of mines could be an advantage.

True, but only the simplest mines would be dependent on a single sensor type...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Bren
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
One of my hang-ups for the Hoverscout has always been how the skirt maintained a rigid seal over rough ground.
If the engines driving the fans have a high enough power-to-weight that isn’t problem. Some air spills and fan speed needs to increase to compensate or the vehicle essentially hits some bumps as the skirt partially grounds.

In some situations it could even be an advantage since one could adjust the pitch of the fan blades to spill air from one side of the skirt or ground one side of the skirt to cause the vehicle to pivot for a tighter turn.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
My biggest hang-up there is wondering how a fluctuating gravity field could actually happen naturally.
Yes. I try not to wonder about it too much. Wink Just like I don't wonder how a TIE fighter whines in space or starfighters perform as if there is some kind of air resistance in space and gravity well out of a gravity field.

I see the fluctuating gravity field as just a technobabble explanation to rationalize why repulsorlifts don’t work in this adventure or on this planet. I see it as akin to Star Trek where the sensors and transporters won’t work in one episode because of dramatic reasons, but with some techno-babble rationale that the actors can repeat to help the audience maintain a suspension of disbelief.

Quote:
It would also seem to be a double standard, since starships equipped with repulsorlifts seem to function quite well in gravity fields of varying intensity.
My understanding is that repulsor is short for gravity-repulsion. To work the rupulsorlifts need a gravity source to repel against. So the repulsorlift engines on starships are predominantly used for landings and takeoffs (and to avoid the harmful effects of the back blast and emissions from the ion engines. Away from a planet, the ion engines are used instead of the repulsorlifts.

Quote:
And if starships can moderate the strength of their repulsorlifts to match changes in local gravity, it would seem to follow that repulsorlift vehicles could do the same, or could at least be modified / upgraded to do so rather than switching to a completely new vehicle kept around for those rare occasions when it might be needed.
My assumption is that they can adjust to low-g, normal-g, high-g. But in negligible-to-no gravity they don’t work. The idea that they might need to be adjusted or in a sense tuned for nonstandard gravity is interesting. Similar to the way the air-fuel mix on a car engine needs adjusting for large elevation changes. (I remember having to adjust the air mix on my Triumph TR-7 when driving from Kansas into the Rocky Mountains.

Quote:
Another possibility is that the local geologic makeup of the ground could be disruptive to repulsorlift operations, such as crystalline pockets that react negatively with the vehicle's drive field.
I like this idea. It sounds less silly than a planet where the gravity field fluctuates a lot. Yours is better technobabble. Smile

Quote:
Quote:
I rationalize that by thinking that a repulsor craft just sitting has much less inertia and little to no friction compared to a ground vehicle.

I think that ties in with my suggestion from above, that repulsorlifts require energy to maintain stability, whereas most ground-effect vehicles do so simply by dint of weight and gravity holding them to the ground.
Makes sense.

Quote:
True, but only the simplest mines would be dependent on a single sensor type.
Well obviously that would be true in our world. Wink Dramatically I see it as a useful, albeit kind of illogical, conceit.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12347
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
If the engines driving the fans have a high enough power-to-weight that isn’t problem. Some air spills and fan speed needs to increase to compensate or the vehicle essentially hits some bumps as the skirt partially grounds.

In some situations it could even be an advantage since one could adjust the pitch of the fan blades to spill air from one side of the skirt or ground one side of the skirt to cause the vehicle to pivot for a tighter turn.

True, but this is Star Wars, so having a force-field supported plenum chamber helps keep things fun and interesting. you could get the same effect by reducing power to the field on whichever side you wanted to spill air on...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Bren
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
True, but this is Star Wars, so having a force-field supported plenum chamber helps keep things fun and interesting. you could get the same effect by reducing power to the field on whichever side you wanted to spill air on...
Of course if it makes it more fun and interesting you should definitely use it!

I guess what I'm saying is that to me it seems unnecessary, both because I'm fine with how a non-force field hovercraft already works and also because it makes the forcefield hovercraft seem like a repulsorlift vehicle rather than different from it. I want a hovercraft with a plenum chamber or a ground vehicle with wheels or treads to be lower tech than a repulsorlift vehicle and to be a tech that I already understand and don't have to look up to remember the sci-fi technobabble explanation of how it works. I don't want the plenum chamber to be a forcefield or the tank treads to be swarms of microbots* that link and delink in a continuous reshaping of the treads that (somehow) causes the tank to move.


* The technology in the animated movie Big Hero 6 is an example of what I mean by movement via microbots.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12347
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
Just like I don't wonder how a TIE fighter whines in space or starfighters perform as if there is some kind of air resistance in space and gravity well out of a gravity field.

LOL. I have explanations for those too, if you're interested.

Quote:
I see the fluctuating gravity field as just a technobabble explanation to rationalize why repulsorlifts don’t work in this adventure or on this planet. I see it as akin to Star Trek where the sensors and transporters won’t work in one episode because of dramatic reasons, but with some techno-babble rationale that the actors can repeat to help the audience maintain a suspension of disbelief.

I prefer to leave it out entirely unless someone can come up with a decent explanation as to why it might be a thing. I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons why ACVs might be more appropriate in niche environments than repulsorlifts.

Quote:
My understanding is that repulsor is short for gravity-repulsion. To work the repulsorlifts need a gravity source to repel against. So the repulsorlift engines on starships are predominantly used for landings and takeoffs (and to avoid the harmful effects of the back blast and emissions from the ion engines. Away from a planet, the ion engines are used instead of the repulsorlifts.

My theory begins with that, but expands on the idea by theorizing that repulsorlift only provides lift, not thrust, and that other mechanisms must be used for propulsion. In the case of starships and airspeeders, there is a directional impeller, using either a directed gravity field or some form of subspace traction system (similar to the "ethereal rudder" mentioned in the X-Wing novels) to move the vehicle. For landspeeders, it's a short-ranged tractor field that grabs the ground underneath the vehicle and exerts propulsive force. In both cases, neither system is particularly fast on its own, and thus requires some form of auxiliary thrust to achieve high speed.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the interests of de-hijacking my thread on the AT-AV walker concept, I'll be replying to this post in this thread.

Bren wrote:
Dredwulf60 wrote:
How about this?

http://www.swagonline.net/image/attack-patrol-special-warfare-skiff

Nice! For some reason I see this going up a jungle river. And now I it needs a suncreen. I'm seeing something added on with local materials like scavenged 5cm diameter pipes and a canvas awning.
More like one of these.

The idea is the repulsorlift equivalent of the US Navy Special Boat Services' SOC-R Boat. It can provide communications and reconnaissance support in addition to being REALLY useful for extracting a team under fire, and can be flown in by a starship with big enough cargo doors (the Kappa-Class Troop Shuttle from RoE comes to mind, although some other light freighter types might also be made to work with it.

Off the top of my head, I'd give it a dual Heavy Repeating Blaster on the bow, a single HRB on the tail, a mini-blaster cannon on each side and an Auto-Grenade Launcher on the pedestal in the middle. So say a SpecForce team is getting chased by Imperial troops, this thing flies in and hoses the $h!t out of the Imps while the SpecForce team loads on, then it flies them to safety, most likely while keeping the pursuers pinned down with as many of the guns as it can bring to bear.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
Thinking some more about the skiff picture, I have an idea for an adventure where the characters end up on a jungle river in a armed repulsor skiff. (The background color makes me think of sunset over the jungle.)

I'll look for inspiration from Apocalypse Now, Heart of Darkness, Rambo – the one where he is freeing POWs, and those Chuck Norris movies where he is freeing POWs.

Maybe I'll call it Dark Heart - A Jungle River Adventure.

Thanks Dredwulf!


Cool!

What era?
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Bren
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably sometime between the beginning of the Rebels TV show and the end of Return of the Jedi.

Currently we are 4 years before the Battle of Yavin. I don't know when (real time) or even if we will get to play it.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
More like one of these.
That one is also missing an awning. Laughing
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12347
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here you go, Dred...

SpecForce Combat Skiff

The Combat Skiff is the unofficial name for the Alliance SpecForce's Special Warfare Support Skiff. Based on a common model of Cargo Skiff, the Combat Skiff is upgraded for better speed and performance, and is equipped with an array of heavy support weapons, as well as comm-scan and stealth equipment used to augment and assist deployed SpecForce teams.

Small enough to be easily deployed in a variety of common freighter types (so long as their cargo bay doors are large enough to fit it), the Combat Skiff is a popular transport for Infiltrator and Pathfinder teams, delivering them close to their intended target, providing sensor and communications support during the mission, and extracting them afterwards. The Combat Skiff is crewed by SpecForce personnel, with a driver and technician making up the crew and four gunners from Heavy Weapons operating the weapon systems (the Technician handles the comm-scan system, as well as manning whichever weapon isn't on the engaged side if in combat).

Craft: Ubrikkian's Bantha II-Class (Modified)
Type: Combat Skiff
Scale: Speeder (+4D)
Length: 9 meters
Skill: Airspeeder Operation: Air Skiff
Crew: 2 (1 @ +5) & 4 Gunners
Crew Skill: Varies Dramatically
Passengers: 8
Cargo Capacity: 1 metric ton per passenger
Cover: 1/2
Cost:
Maneuverability: 1D+2
Move: 105; 300kph
Altitude Range: Ground Level to 4 kilometers
Body: 2D
Sensors:
Passive 2km/1D
Scan 4km/2D
Search 6km/3D
Focus 300m/4D
Stealth +1D
Communications +1D
Navigation +1D
Weapons:
1 Dual Heavy Repeating Blaster
Fire Arc: Front/Left/Right
Crew: 1
Fire Control: 2D
Range: 3-75/200/500
Rate of Fire: 3D Auto-Fire**
Damage: 4D
1 Heavy Repeating Blaster
Fire Arc: Rear/Left/Right
Crew: 1
Fire Control: 2D
Range: 3-75/200/500
Rate of Fire: 3D Auto-Fire**
Damage: 3D
2 Rotary Blaster Cannon
Fire Arc: 1 Front/Left/Rear, 1 Front/Right/Rear (+5 Difficulty to shots in Front and Rear Arcs)
Scale: Character (+0D)
Crew: 1
Range: 3-50/150/400
Rate of Fire: 4D Auto-Fire**
Damage: 6D
1 Auto-Grenade Launcher
Fire Arc: Turret (+5 Difficulty to Rear Arc)
Scale: Swoop (+2D)
Crew: 1
Fire Control: 1D
Range: 10-150/400/1km.
Rate of Fire: 2D Auto-Fire**
Damage: 5D
Blast Radius: -1 Miss = -1D Damage (1 meter)
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great! Thanks!
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A pretty cool looking fighter and an armed speeder bike on this page:

https://ilmchallenge.artstation.com/survivors/11246/
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fighter would make a good Z-95 Headhunter...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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