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Miniatures Vehicle Rules Conversion
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm    Post subject: Miniatures Vehicle Rules Conversion Reply with quote

I've always wanted to do a more nuanced and detailed version of the basic terrain Difficulty rules from the 2R&E Rulebook, but I never felt like I had a firm enough grasp of the pros and cons of different vehicles to take a stab at it. However, I recently stumbled across the Vehicles chapter in the Miniature Battles Companion, which is really a gold mine of useful information as to how WEG viewed the different ground vehicles. I'd love to be able to convert this over to a system suitable to the RPG, complete with the distinction between Terrain and Barriers/Obstacles; unfortunately, I have nowhere near enough experience with the Miniature rules to be able to do it justice. Anyone here know enough to walk me through it?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can. What do you need to know?

I got rid of my R&E RPG rulebook but I practically breathed the miniatures rules for several years.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The movement rules, mostly. I’ve wanted to add the distinction of Terrain vs. Obstacles for a while, and I’ve always believed that the different types of vehicle drives all came with different pros and cons as far as how they handled various terrain / obstacles. WEG Miniatures has just that, but I don’t know the language well enough to transfer it across.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The movement rules, mostly. I’ve wanted to add the distinction of Terrain vs. Obstacles for a while, and I’ve always believed that the different types of vehicle drives all came with different pros and cons as far as how they handled various terrain / obstacles. WEG Miniatures has just that, but I don’t know the language well enough to transfer it across.


I'll get back to you.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very broadly speaking, repulsors and hovercraft ignore all 2 dimensional terrain such as water and mud. But they mostly treat complex 3 dimensional terrain such as woods as impassable. They can fly over walls though.

Walkers can pick their way through any terrain given enough time, but treat sheer surfaces like walls as impassable.

Wheeled, tracked, and/pr wide wheeled vehicles can drive over almost anything except water features which generally stop them. Though exceptions abound. Wheeled vehicles can only drive on easy hills while tracked/wide wheeled can go on any hills, for example.

There is a chart on page 15 but you do need to understand terminology to use it. "Cautious" speed is the vehicles Move, divided by 10, rounded down. "NE" means No Effect, and a dash (-) means the terrain is impassable for that vehicle. You'd also need to understand "Bogged Down" tests. These are difficulty 6 Vehicle Operations skill tests for every turn that tracked vehicles spend in certain terrain. If you pass fine. If you fail, you're stuck and need to test again, with the difficulty increasing by 2 for each successive test. Difficulty 6 isn't the same as it in the RPG though. That would have to be converted.

Furthermore, different drive systems can pivot different amounts on the spot, if they started the turn standing still.

I can extrapolate the entire chart into written summaries but that will take time. Are there any certain things you want to know specifically for your games?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In broad terms, I'm thinking of three different avenues:
    1). A table of vehicle drive types and terrain types, listing various Terrain Difficulty modifiers by vehicle type. Maybe also some discussion on what constitutes impassible Terrain, and whether or not it truly would be impassible for all vehicles under all circumstances.

    2). Something similar for Obstacles, as distinct from Terrain, perhaps in addition to Terrain (although I still have a lot to grok before I can say whether or not this is a viable request). I'm also thinking in terms of Ground Clearance for Walkers, in the sense of, how high of an obstacle can they step over without being forced to destroy it, and some sample Strength codes for obstacles, so that larger Scale vehicles could potentially just run straight through stuff rather than maneuver around it.

    3). Some D6 Rules for turning stationary vehicles (although I think I grasp enough of the basics to do this one on my own).

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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Would be easy for me to make by converting the existing chart. Most of the entries within the chart itself have no die codes or anything. I would just need to convert difficulty 6 in SWMB to a difficulty number in SWTRPG.

Obstacles aren't really covered in the kind of detail you're talking about. I guess they are if one dug deep enough, but it's more that they provide a framework to figure it out in a case by case basis during games.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
1) Would be easy for me to make by converting the existing chart. Most of the entries within the chart itself have no die codes or anything. I would just need to convert difficulty 6 in SWMB to a difficulty number in SWTRPG.

Obstacles aren't really covered in the kind of detail you're talking about. I guess they are if one dug deep enough, but it's more that they provide a framework to figure it out in a case by case basis during games.

Very cool. I doubt I'd stick with a literal crossover anyway, but it would be useful to have a place to start.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing within the chart this is actually up for conversion is the difficulty 6 skill test (then 8, then 10, etc) which some vehicles have to make in certain terrain, to keep from getting stuck/to break out being stuck.

For comparison, 6 is the basic difficulty for a shot at short range. Short, not point blank. SWMB has only 3 ranges, short medium and long.

Edit:

Also note that an "average" skill of 2 in SWMB, would roll 5.5 so, it's a slightly less than likely to succeed difficulty for an average person. Though that's tricky because it's usually a one-way conversion. Blaster 2 represents a blaster skill of 1D+2 to 2D+1. When you convert it the other way, blaster 2 just becomes 2D.

Skill 3 would roll 6.5 on average, and a trained pro with skill 4 would roll 7.5, passing it rather reliably.

So I'll let you decide how you want to interpret that difficulty 6 bogged down test. You'd presumably want it to be hard to pass with 2D, plausible with 3D, and pretty reliably passed with 4D. So... difficulty 8 or 9 probably. Not sure what you'd want to use for incremental increases.

The rest of the chart is just "Impassable", "No Effect", or gives a formulaic penalty to apply to the vehicle's stats which theoretically apply easily to RPG stats as well. I will post a pic of the chart later.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the face of things, it sounds like a simple conversion to +5 or +10 would be fine, maybe with an option on the Maneuver Failure Chart to cover getting stuck for appropriate vehicles...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The chart itself is here, and should convert to almost any rules system.
https://imgur.com/Cg3joBA
Since everything is either impassable, no effect, or gives a mathematical movement penalty to apply to your vehicle rules. The exception (other than the aforementioned 'bogged down' tests) is when they say certain vehicles can ignore woods under 6" and the like. Anytime it references something like that, you need to multiply by 6 feet and convert to meters, for SWTRPG. That 6" measurement is for areas of woods that are 6" wide on a tabletop. I assume "Cautious" converts seamlessly but I am more into the miniatures game than the RPG. If not let me know and I'll extrapolate it.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
The chart itself is here, and should convert to almost any rules system.
https://imgur.com/Cg3joBA
Since everything is either impassable, no effect, or gives a mathematical movement penalty to apply to your vehicle rules. The exception (other than the aforementioned 'bogged down' tests) is when they say certain vehicles can ignore woods under 6" and the like. Anytime it references something like that, you need to multiply by 6 feet and convert to meters, for SWTRPG. That 6" measurement is for areas of woods that are 6" wide on a tabletop. I assume "Cautious" converts seamlessly but I am more into the miniatures game than the RPG. If not let me know and I'll extrapolate it.

I've got the chart in pdf form (seeing it was what got me thinking about this in the first place), but the D6 game is structured more around increased/decreased Difficulty levels, with hard caps only existing in a couple places (full actions and all-out speeds).

I'm picturing either a chart with Difficulty Modifiers generated by cross-referencing drive type and terrain, or bypassing that step entirely and just have the chart list base Difficulties by vehicle type and terrain.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe with the potential for getting stuck being related to the Wild Die, but with the Wild Die threshold getting lower as Difficulty increases, so that in Moderate Terrain, getting stuck would only happen on a 1, but in Difficult Terrain, it happens on a 1-2...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Maybe with the potential for getting stuck being related to the Wild Die, but with the Wild Die threshold getting lower as Difficulty increases, so that in Moderate Terrain, getting stuck would only happen on a 1, but in Difficult Terrain, it happens on a 1-2...


For getting stuck something like that would make sense. I wouldn't relegate a lot of things to sliding difficulty numbers though. It's not like when you go uphill it's actually taxing your driving skills, but, you do slow down.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, although you can usually maintain your speed; you just have to work harder at it (unless you're very heavily loaded down). The two options I can think of would be to treat hills as either a Move Penalty or a Lost Move (i.e. hills beyond a certain slope inflict 1 Lost Move = can't climb them at All-Out).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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