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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | In other words, the character would need to have some kind of control over how high and how far he jumps (whether it is an acute arc, or a broad one) and would need control over his rate of descent, or else he'll just break his knees when he lands from a certain height. |
Two-stage; one big burn to initiate the jump, followed by a shorter retro-burn at the end to cushion the landing and control the exact landing point. A jump can be up, down, lateral or a mix, but will all be controlled by a single Jump Pack Operation roll that covers both take-off and landing, with success or failure determining how close the character lands to their desired aim point.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| RyanDarkstar wrote: | | Would it look something like this? |
Something like this, but this position would be used more for vertical movement, whereas extended periods of horizontal flight would have a flight pack operator closer to a prone position.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | I wonder how small one could make a repulsorlift. Like, would a back-pack sized one be feasible? |
They certainly seem to be, although a power source would also be required. For the purposes of this project, I can see Jump Packs being smaller and less complicated - possibly down to the size of a harness or small backpack - and Flight Packs being bulkier, but more versatile.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | | In other words, the character would need to have some kind of control over how high and how far he jumps (whether it is an acute arc, or a broad one) and would need control over his rate of descent, or else he'll just break his knees when he lands from a certain height. |
Two-stage; one big burn to initiate the jump, followed by a shorter retro-burn at the end to cushion the landing and control the exact landing point. A jump can be up, down, lateral or a mix, but will all be controlled by a single Jump Pack Operation roll that covers both take-off and landing, with success or failure determining how close the character lands to their desired aim point. |
What would he the application for something like this?
As I think about it, it seems like recreational use in a controlled environment is about the only place I'd want to use one, depending on the risks involved with "missing" my desired landing point.
Assuming safe ground, is a safe landing guaranteed no matter how far off the roll is?
Let's suppose we're jumping across a chasm and we miss and scatter back toward the starting point (so that we don't make it across). Assuming enough juice is available, will the slow burn continue until the pilot actually lands, or does he just fall to his death?
That is, does he get to control the exact rate and duration of burn? Or are there altitude sensors that work this out and effect a "safe" landing? Or something else?
Could we fire the big blast again to correct the jump mid air? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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It's possible. Heinlein's Mobile Infantry power armor in Starship Troopers used jump packs as a mobility enhancement ("on the bounce"), so a mid-air course correction is a possibility.
The source material where I got the idea (WH40K 1st. Edition) viewed it from an offensive POV, that characters equipped with jump packs could rapidly close the range with an enemy to engage in close combat (which included pistols).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:32 am Post subject: |
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I suspected as much. Blood Claws have always been one of my favorite troop types. I started playing in 2nd edition, and there was no possibility of scatter, then.
But there were complications if the target landing spot was in difficult terrain (possibility of casualties, etc.).
So... if mid air course correction is allowed, here's my preliminary idea.
If the first roll fails, the character can spend another action to try and correct. This action interrupts whatever other action would have come next (so, it is lost, effectively). Or, the pilot can just accept "good enough" if the next action is more important than landing exactly. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | I suspected as much. Blood Claws have always been one of my favorite troop types. I started playing in 2nd edition, and there was no possibility of scatter, then. |
The 1E Rogue Trader rules predate the existence of Blood Claws; Space Wolves were only mentioned as one of the existing Space Marine chapters. My, how things have changed.
Back in those days, there was a lot of stuff in the rules that was more "role-playing" in nature, whereas the later versions have successively stripped a lot of it out to streamline the tabletop gaming paradigm.
| Quote: | But there were complications if the target landing spot was in difficult terrain (possibility of casualties, etc.).
So... if mid air course correction is allowed, here's my preliminary idea.
If the first roll fails, the character can spend another action to try and correct. This action interrupts whatever other action would have come next (so, it is lost, effectively). Or, the pilot can just accept "good enough" if the next action is more important than landing exactly. |
I'm starting to think that the Jump Pack would be a fleshed-out version of the existing rules for Jet/Rocket Packs, with a single charge that carries you a certain distance, which you can then keep using to jump from mid-air.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, this one is tricky for me...
On one hand, it seems like a cool way to boost individual character mobility, but the very fact of requiring a roll intoduces a lot of questions (for me).
With a regular muscle powered jump, if you don't make it across the pit, you fall in the pit.
But what does failure look like with the jump pack?
I suppose the charges expended could guarantee a certain amount of distance, but the actual roll would determine how well the pilot lands (on his feet ready to run/fight or stumbling around losing an action or face first with an injury, etc.). The difficulty could also be modified if timing is a factor in the jump. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Well, what did failure look like with the jet/rocket pack? It's not like WEG put a lot of thought into this either. The failure is going to depend hugely on the terrain and by how much the jumper misses his roll, just like everything else.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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The way I see it, a failure is not in the pack, which is more than capable of carrying a character the intended distance. The problem is in the guidance, which is provided by the character. And so, the Scatter Chart. Perhaps treat it like a weapon, with Point Blank, Short, Medium and Long Ranges, with the Scatter distance determined by the degree to which the jumper failed, with results appropriate to the environment. Attempt to jump across a chasm, roll short on the jump by too much and fall in. You could even flip the Scatter Chart so that three of the results will be "short", rather than just one.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Bren
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | It'd probably be best to just keep any description general, as in "a variety of different control mechanisms" and let people invent their own ideas from there. This being space opera, the ability to fly and/or jump as part of a game scenario is what's important. We never really question how stormtroopers or Mandalorians activate the different systems built into their armor, we just accept the fact that they do as part of the game rules. |
You certainly don't have to go into detail if you don't want to do so, but suit control mechanisms are mentioned in a number of places in various EU novels. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | The way I see it, a failure is not in the pack, which is more than capable of carrying a character the intended distance. The problem is in the guidance, which is provided by the character. And so, the Scatter Chart. Perhaps treat it like a weapon, with Point Blank, Short, Medium and Long Ranges, with the Scatter distance determined by the degree to which the jumper failed, with results appropriate to the environment. Attempt to jump across a chasm, roll short on the jump by too much and fall in. You could even flip the Scatter Chart so that three of the results will be "short", rather than just one. |
I suppose I'm just hung up on the notion of mid-flight corrections. Don't mind me.
As a player, I'd probably choose not to use something like a jump pack if it carried the same risks of failure as a regular jump does (that is, I'd rather just get a jet pack and fly across the chasm without having to roll rather than having to roll to clear a distance that the pack is 100% capable of). |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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The way I’m looking at it, the trade-off will be in size and ease of use, with Jump Packs being both smaller and lower Difficulty to operate.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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So, one thing I have done in the past with flight packs and the like is that the charge spent for movement did not, necessarily, have to end on the ground; it could, to borrow the terminology, be "kept up". I have a feeling that this was the intention, but it was explained REALLY poorly.
So, let's say I have a Hush-about Jet Pack. 10 charges, which let me move 200m vertically or 500m horizontally per charge. This does not mean I spend a charge and move 500m in a single round... I might spend a charge and move 500m over 10 rounds, cruising along at a comfortable speed of 10. Do I need to go 1km? That'll cost me 2 charges (plus maybe a 3rd, for my takeoff and landing).
How fast can I go? Not a clue. Can I go 500m in a round? What's a reasonable cruising speed? When does it get HARD to control it? These are things that are not adequately explained.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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I'm thinking that's why a Flight Pack needs to be written up like a vehicle, as the Vehicle Movement Rules address most of those concerns. One of the advantages to the Jump Pack would be the ability to move relatively short distances more quickly than the Flight Pack, but the Flight Pack would offer greater endurance and range, as well as speed once it takes a round or two to accelerate.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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