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Jedi Schools - Guardian, Sentinal, Consular
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Akumakaji
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:48 pm    Post subject: Jedi Schools - Guardian, Sentinal, Consular Reply with quote

Hello everyone! This is my first post and I am very happy to have found this awesome forum of SWd6 enthusiasts :> SWd6 was the very first RPG I ever played and I always had a soft spot for it. After years of dormancy I looked it up on a whim and found the D6Holocron and all the awesome conversion books of the rancor pit, and so I ended up here.

But enough talk about myself and lets right jump into my first homebrew project.

I always liked the distinction of the Jedi schools of thought, that were introduced (I think) in KOTOR, namely the lightsaber centric Jedi Guardian, the more defensive inclined Jedi Sentinal and the more force power centered jedi Consular. I think the KOTOR MMO fleshed this out a bit more, but I never played that one, so the KOTOR single player games where my only source for this one.

I like the idea that the first light saber crystal a young jedi attunes to will reflect his personality and accordingly chose the color blue, yellow or green respectively (though it might later be changed).

I know that SWd6 is a classless system, and I don't want to shoehorn some big class system into it, but I thought that I might dole out a cool and distinct advantage for the three basic jedi schools. Here is what I have come up with

Jedi Guiardian - Normally, the 7 lightsabre combat forms would have to be bought with character points, or be taken as a force power pick when advancing your force skills. As the lightsabre centered school, the Jedi Guardian would unlook one form for free for every 2D in their highest force skill.

Jedi Consular - The consulars where known for their mastery of the force, and I thought that they might be able to keep up one force power for free for every 3D in their heighest force skill. I don't know if this will be too powerful, but I somewhat like the idea of a masterful force user keeping up quite a lot of powers.

Jedi Sentinal - Here I wasn't sure how to handle it. At first I thought to give them a sort of force shield (+1D to resist damage per 2 or 3D in their highest force skill), but I was't too happy with that. My second idea was to give them one auto blaster deflect for every 2 or 3D in their highest force skill.

I am also toying with a generic bonus for Sith or general fallen Jedi, but I am not too sure what this could be. A bonus to damage seems to be the most straight forward option, but thats also pretty flat and boring. Maybe they can opt to let their emotions rule their next roll and go for something like a reckless roll:

Sith School - once per round, you may add half your highest force skill to an action as extra dice, but if the wild die comes up as 1 or 2, this is substracted from your total, as you overextended yourself.

Well, this are just some ideas, and I am open for other optinions or critcism. I don´t want to make the Jedi too overpowered, as they can already dominated a battle quite a lot, as they are, so I would want a small, yet flavorful, advantage that will be useful during the Jedis entire career.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the Pit; you certain swing for the fences on your first post.

My impression of the Sentinel was that they were more an evolution of the Jedi Shadow from the TotJ Sourcebook, something of a Jedi Ninja Spy combo, less of a compromise between the two than a practitioner of the “middle path” between warfare (Guardian) and diplomacy (Consular)
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some scoursces do depict the sentinels to be the jedi who actively seek out and destroy the dark side. Thus being the one in between the consular and guardian.

If we don't look at shadows, and watchmen and other very specialized jedi I think a resistance to darkside powers would be fitting for the sentinle. maybe add +1D to reist darkside powers pr 2D highest force skill.

An alternative though one that can easily exploited perhaps is gain darkside points less "strict" than other jedi, meaning the sentinel can use some "dark side" powers and maybe some powers to injure and even kill without the automatic darkside point.

However such a thing need be balanced out, perhaps by longer, harder and more costly redemption, maybe they get Darkside points less often but gain 2 in stead of one, something like that.
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Akumakaji
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. I might check out the ressources on th jedi Sentinal ... now that you mention it I think they were some sort of shadowy gurdians of the temple, right?

Hmm, the thing with the grayish area of the force might be viable ... in the original SWd6 RPG any use of the force to harm or kill another being was punished by a darkside point, as the original rules said the the end definitely didn't justify the means. But since then we have seen loads of depiction of lightside jedi using the force at least somewhat offensive, besides lightsabre combat, ie force push and stuff light that. Maybe a sentinal would be allowed to force push baddies from ledges or pull them into chasms without gaining a darkside point?

How is your stand in the light side of the force? I remember that we were super strict back in the days ... my first gm didn´t even allow a concentrate on a blaster shot, because this was harming a living being with the use of the force Razz This might be a bit on the extreme end, but I am still on the fence with pushing people over ledges etc. because thats quite a nasty and vile trick to use. Also, in the new star wars game "Jedi: Fallen Order" the main character eventually learns to pull storm troopers from over the room and instantly stabs them to death ... while stabbing with the lightsaber is not an evil move, it always got a kinda Sith-vipe for me as it was often used in execution style moves etc ... so pulling someone towards you to just stab them seems at least a little bit evil to me.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My reference is the Wookieepedia article on Jedi Sentinels, specifically:
    "While they possessed considerable combat skills and had somewhat extensive knowledge of the Force, Sentinels blended both schools of teaching and amplified them with a series of non-Force skills, such as in the fields of security, computers, stealth techniques, demolitions, repair or medicine. These skills tended to take the forefront in their middle-road approach to problems; while a Guardian might bash down a locked door and a Consular might simply knock, a Sentinel would instead use equipment available or ingenuity to pick the lock."

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Akumakaji
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
My reference is the Wookieepedia article on Jedi Sentinels, specifically:
    "While they possessed considerable combat skills and had somewhat extensive knowledge of the Force, Sentinels blended both schools of teaching and amplified them with a series of non-Force skills, such as in the fields of security, computers, stealth techniques, demolitions, repair or medicine. These skills tended to take the forefront in their middle-road approach to problems; while a Guardian might bash down a locked door and a Consular might simply knock, a Sentinel would instead use equipment available or ingenuity to pick the lock."


Hmm, interesting... So what about a modified concentration power? Either more dice, or maybe the ability to concentrate or two or more things at one time.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first impression is that you're thinking too much along D20 lines, where characters have discrete classes that provide specific, unique powers and bonuses. In the SWD6 system, character specialization and classification is more a factor of where said character chooses to spend the CP they earn from adventuring. All other things being equal, a Guardian would spend their CP to improve their combat oriented skills and learning combat-oriented powers, whereas a Consular would concentrate more on learning the Force in general (likely with a greater emphasis on insight or intuitive powers at the expense of combat), while the Sentinel would be a blending of the two, but with a more well-rounded skill-set, including stealth, technical, and other mundane skills.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the pit. One thing i'd see, is where someone has to have a certain RANK in force powers (and poss LS combat), before moving from a generic jedi, to one of these groups..

So the Jedi Guardian, say, should require 5d in all 3 force powers, and 6d in LS combat to become part of their "school".
Jedi Consulars would need 6d in all 3 force powers, 5d in persuasion, bargaining and/or bureaucracy.
Sentinels would need 5d stealth and search... 4d in control, but 6d sense.

Or something like that..
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Akumakaji
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill: you are probably right ... I shouldn't get too hung up on the idea. Maybe I will think it through and just give each "class" one little upgrade, but without the scaling factor.

Garhkal: thats an excelent idea. So until then they will be a padawan, and once they attain knight status, they also officially join one of the three paths. This way they will also have a few nice skills under their wing that will flesh them out, besides force powers.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I were to do this, I think I'd lean towards developing a force power that is sort of a signature for the "class"... not that others will be unable to learn it, but that it specifically speaks to their style and philosophy.

KOTOR had Guardians learning Force Leap, for example... Instantly cover a long distance to engage in melee, with a powerful strike at the end of the leap. Sentinels might have an ability that lets them use the force to aid more mundane skill checks.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akumakaji wrote:
CRMcNeill: you are probably right ... I shouldn't get too hung up on the idea. Maybe I will think it through and just give each "class" one little upgrade, but without the scaling factor.

It’s more of a cautionary point than a “don’t do that.” D6 compared to D20 “is more what you might call guidelines than actual rules.”

In the spirit of that statement, I’d look more at a list of what skills and Force Powers each of the three classes should concentrate on, so that a player who wants to build said archetype knows what to focus on, while still having the option of tweaking the character to suit their own tastes.

The WEG System already does this for starting characters; all the Templates have a list of suggested starting skills. Unfortunately, there's nothing there for guiding character progression once they’ve been created.

That could be a very handy project, actually. Providing a set of “blueprints” for building one of the Jedi archetypes from a starting Young Jedi...
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akumakaji wrote:

Garhkal: thats an excelent idea. So until then they will be a padawan, and once they attain knight status, they also officially join one of the three paths. This way they will also have a few nice skills under their wing that will flesh them out, besides force powers.


I'd say it would be more, once they pass their Knight trials, they get offered to TEST for one of the paths.. Nothing's a certainty.
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Akumakaji
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all your replies, this are already a lot of good ideas and pointers.

MrNexx: I really like this idea and might think about it. In the game the Jedi Guardians had the Force Jump, Jedi Sentinals had added resistance to force powers and Jedi Consulars had added oompf (increased DC) of their own force powers. Of this three only the Force Jump sounds really interesting and applicable, the others are too base and gamey to me, but it is a start.
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're going to run your game in a way that you and you're players have fun. More power to you. I'm writing this to tell you how I run things, what works for us. Best of luck to you.

I have found giving bonuses in this game is more trouble than its worth. D6 has an amazing balance inherent in the game. Giving bonuses often throws that balance off.

I don't do saber forms or schools. I let my players know about these things as being labels in game. Out of game, on their character sheet, their fighting style or school is defined by what skills they choose to improve.

A player who specializes heavily in Lightsaber: Defense/Parry is going to be Form II. I don't need to change the rules at all to accommodate them.

A Sentinel is going to be improving Lightsaber skill, probably with specializations, then control & sense over alter. Attribute wise, they are likely to have focused on DEX and STR.

A Consular will likely have a focus in perception and knowledge skills, with a very high sense.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akumakaji wrote:
Thanks for all your replies, this are already a lot of good ideas and pointers.

MrNexx: I really like this idea and might think about it. In the game the Jedi Guardians had the Force Jump, Jedi Sentinals had added resistance to force powers and Jedi Consulars had added oompf (increased DC) of their own force powers. Of this three only the Force Jump sounds really interesting and applicable, the others are too base and gamey to me, but it is a start.


Oh, I'd definitely say that Force Leap is the only interesting one, though, as has been observed elsewhere, it's kind of iffy by a strict reading of the Dark Side rules.

I could see Sentinels specializing in powers that let them use the Force for other tasks... Force Astrogation is one that I recall, but also ones that might cover repair skills, or piloting, or the like... force powers that let them interact with the mundane world, as it were.

For Consulars? Definitely some sort of sense abilities; a more comprehensive form of telepathy, perhaps allowing them to get impressions from multiple people?

Essentially, I would treat them similar to the different "Force Disciplines" you encounter in the books, like the Witches of Dathomir or the Tyia... philosophies and ways of living the Force which guide the study of the Unified Force. Because while the Jedi call it "receptive telepathy", someone else might call it "ESP" or "Knowing your enemy" or "Ghost of a mind"... different names for identical mechanical effects, each approached from its own philosophical point of view.
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