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First Edition Conversion Project
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:54 pm    Post subject: First Edition Conversion Project Reply with quote

Happy New Year to the Rancor Pit Community!

I've had a project on the back burner for a while that I thought would be something relatively easy for the community to pitch in and get done. I would like to create a single PDF document that serves as a stats conversion resource for all WEG Star Wars first edition books (or parts thereof) that where not ever republished by WEG in second edition form. So anyone that wanted to use one of these 1e resources or adventures would only need this single PDF to use/run it in 2e. I'm thinking it would be easiest to just repeat stats under each book section (like all the adventures that have stormtrooper stats). That way everything a GM would need would be all in one place for each adventure.

If stats for an item in a 1e work were published under a different 2e work, we can use that if it makes more sense than straight conversion. If multiple WEG 2e sources contradict each other, later stats will probably take priority over the earlier stats. We are going to just stick with 2e RAW without any house rules, and in the uncommon cases that it may make a difference, it will use R&E over the original 2e.

For the most part it will be straight 1e to 2e conversion, but there may be a few cases where updating stats with respect to EU continuity (subsequent to its appearance in 1e WEG) may be warranted. (For example, I thought that I had already created a 2e stat block for Mar Barezz updated in such a way, but I can't find it.) If there happens to be Canon continuity for a stat subject, I suppose we could incorporate that as long as it does not contradict anything in the EU or its use in the WEG 1e products, but for this project, the EU has priority over Canon (and WEG has primacy in cases where the EU later contradicted WEG).

The stat blocks used should be close to how they appear in R&E. I reserve the right for the document's final edit, but anyone and everyone is free to pitch in with 2e stat block creation, stat editing, document formatting, and discussion of these things. Each contributor will be given a suitable credit for the amount of work he puts into it. Let's make it a new year's resolution to complete this project in 2020. Here are the 1e works not republished in 2e (or not completely republished in 2e):

    "Rebel Breakout" from Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game (first edition, 1987) p. 100
    "To Free the Forgotten" from The Star Wars Rules Companion p. 67
    Battle for the Golden Sun
    Scavenger Hunt
    Crisis on Cloud
    Otherspace
    Otherspace II: Invasion
    Black Ice
    The Isis Coordinates
    Planet of the Mists
    Mission to Lianna
    Cracken's Rebel Field Guide

Whose in?
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Last edited by Whill on Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To get the ball rolling, here are to-do lists that I had created for the first three 1e works on the above list...


"Rebel Breakout" from Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game (first edition, 1987) p. 100

Difficulty Ranges
5
10
15
20
p.100 – GM intro preparing to play – templates?
Equipment from Tiree p. 101
6 headset comlinks (Mechanical or Communications)
5 ten-meter ropes
4 glow rods
6 blaster pistols
20 blaster ammo packs
4 smoke grenades
4 grenades
p.102 – Encounter 3 Mynocks – movement rules, attack rules R&E page reference
Mynock stats
p.103 – R2-D0 – CA5 p.97
Medium Repeating Blaster
Stormtroopers (including core page reference)
heavy blast doors (Encounter 8, p. 104-105) - Technical, Computer Programming/Repair or Security
ISB Agent Mar Barezz (w/ thermal detonator) p. 106
Tiree (Tay Vanis) p. 107 – wound status? returning him to consciousness?
AT-AT Walkers
Y-Wing Fighters (2-man)


"To Free the Forgotten" from The Star Wars Rules Companion p. 67

Major Lariss p. 69
Lt. Wachten (Wrathor)
Lt. Lewis (Conciliator)
Stormtroopers p. 70
Drop Pod
Rolo's Ruffians p. 71
Volq
Captain Dedelin p. 72
Dedelin's "Crew"
p.73 Dexterity -> swimming
Old Guards p. 74
p.74 fatigue?
TIE/rc Fighters
TIE Pilots
Blast Cannon (speeder)
Millennium Falcon
Han Solo
Chewbacca


Battle for the Golden Sun

Rekara
Pek, Sedrian Priest
Karak, Renegade Leader
Commander Aban and Seatroopers
Space Boat Explorer
ship's equipment/weapons
glider-sails
speeder-rafts

p.5 Perception ->sensors
p.6 planetary systems -> sensors
Waveskimmer p.8
water rules?
correct language rules? p. 9
High Priest Cardo p. 11
Priest of the Sun
Warrior Monks
Citizens, Pilgrims, and Renegades
weapons (spear guns)
ignore stun rules on p.12, use raw (add R&E page reference)
probe droid p. 16
aquatic garrison personnel and vehicles p. 17
Imperial Technicians
Stormtroopers
Security Troopers
Laser Canon (vehicles)
sabotage Main Generators, Technical?
Twenchok, p. 23
p.24 Detention Block: streetwise -> willpower? bureaucracy -> law enforcement
p.24 bacta tank difficulties (first aid and medicine), but is there time?
ignore combined actions rules on p.26, use raw (add R&E page reference)
stinger fish, p. 27
Golden Sun stats? p. 29
AT-AT Swimmer p. 33-34 (including repulsor field)
p.34 Perception -> tactics
p.34 hide/sneak
p.36 streetwise -> tactics
Dragob p. 37
Spodan
Anemone Farm / Dexterity -> swimming movement
Glish
Tooch p. 38
Burborok
K'hondo
Porm
p.40 bargain -> persuasion
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Last edited by Whill on Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: First Edition Conversion Project Reply with quote

...What are the D6 stats for crickets?
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: First Edition Conversion Project Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
...What are the D6 stats for crickets?


CRICKETS
Type: Nuisance insect
DEXTERITY 1D
Dodge 3D+1
PERCEPTION 1D
STRENGTH 1D

Jumping 3D+2
Special Abilities:
Soothing Chirp: Crickets, to most humanoids, make a soothing chirp sound. In some this induces relaxation and others restfulness.
Sense Vibrations: Crickets are loud, when no one is around. When approached to within 1.5 meters they will automatically sense movement and stop making sounds.
Size: Itsy bitsy (or smaller)
Orneriness: Yeah right
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you’re welcome to use any of my stats (I saw a few matches in the list), and I can put some work in on the ones I haven’t done. Personally, I’d rather replace the AT-AT Swimmer with an aquatic variant of the Gamma, but that’s just me...
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The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Well, you’re welcome to use any of my stats (I saw a few matches in the list), and I can put some work in on the ones I haven’t done. Personally, I’d rather replace the AT-AT Swimmer with an aquatic variant of the Gamma, but that’s just me...

Thanks. You should make an aquatic variant of the Gamma anyway, but this should be a straight conversion so it has to have the Swimmer.

Your stats may help the process in some cases but this should be straight conversions to 2e RAW, including the 2e R&E RAW scale system, so there may be some differences with your versions.
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Ziz
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been debating fooling with this in my spare time. Is there a formula/chart for converting 1E to 2E, and it's just a matter of working through each adventure/campaign and collating the data? Can you post a sample before/after so I can tell if I'm doing it right?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ziz wrote:
I've been debating fooling with this in my spare time. Is there a formula/chart for converting 1E to 2E, and it's just a matter of working through each adventure/campaign and collating the data? Can you post a sample before/after so I can tell if I'm doing it right?

Thank you for your interest in this project, Ziz!

The easy part is just porting existing 2e stats when available, such as standard stormtroopers, blaster rifles, or TIE Fighters. No conversion needed for that. Just copy/paste/transcribe. Each adventure in the list will have its own section in the PDF, and all stats/rules needed to make each adventure playable in 2e will be in one place (so some tech/standard characters/creatures will be repeated in each section).

For the unique technologies or characters in these adventures, that is where the actual conversion process will come in. Blue Vader only bothered with vehicle/spaceship conversion rules. For other technologies, we will just have to see how they compare to similar items we have stats for in one or both editions and then make some best guesses. We can consult existing fan versions of 2e conversions.

I thought I had a character example for you, ISB Agent Mar Barezz. I remember creating stats for him, but unfortunately I can't find them now. I remember that it wasn't just a straight interpretation of 1e to 2e because I had read his Legends Wookieepedia entry so added some skills that he seemed he might have in the adventure's place in the timeline based on his EU portrayals after this adventure was made. (WEG is completely EU, so an conversion to the official 2e system would not include any Disney Canon continuity.)

I suppose I could create a 1e to 2e conversion guideline document for character skills based on my existing work correlating the skill set of my house system to all the existing editions. I'll probably just add a tab to that existing document. This won't only apply to character stats. Some sentences in the adventure are just rules sentences telling the GM what skills to have the characters roll for different situations.

I expect that the hardest part of this project will be in formatting it for final PDF publication. If you want to get started on any of the first three that I made a list for above, I can take the role of a collaborating editor (not making any changes to your work without discussion and agreement).
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Ziz
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so looking at your spreadsheet, part of it is just reading through the 1e version and translating terminology from a general skill to a more specific 2e one, right? The difficulty/die roll numbers remain the same?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ziz wrote:
Ok, so looking at your spreadsheet, part of it is just reading through the 1e version and translating terminology from a general skill to a more specific 2e one, right? The difficulty/die roll numbers remain the same?

I guess you looked at the skills document I linked above and found the second tab. I've been very busy this weekend and haven't had a chance to post until now that it is done enough to work well enough. You may come across rare skills that I haven't listed in the Other Skills section, but what is there should cover most everything.

As you can see, some 1e skills were split into multiple skills in 2e, but others kept the same scope. I would think that in most cases the difficulty level should stay the same (Easy, Very Difficult, etc.). If there is a case that because of the change of skill/edition/rules, you feel that it might make a difference to the 2e difficulty, then make a judgement to tweak it or feel free to ask if you aren't sure.

But a lot of the project is just porting existing 2e stats, etc. into the adventure (many will have stormtroopers, for example).

Disclaimer: For the adventures I already made lists for, I may have missed something that needs updated so I can't guarantee 100% completeness.
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Ziz
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so tell me if I'm doing this correct. Using a typical stormtrooper as an example -

1E - page 103
STR 2D, brawling 3D
DEX 2D, blaster 4D, brawling parry 4D, dodge 4D
All else 2D

2E/RE - page 209
STR 2D, brawling 3D
DEX 3D, blaster pistol 4D, blaster rifle 5D, brawling parry 4D, dodge 4D
All else 2D

Is that all there is to it?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ziz wrote:
Is that all there is to it?

In this case that is not quite correct. The "blaster rifle (5D)" and "blaster pistol (4D)" in the stats block are not part of the stormtrooper character stats. Those are carried weapons and the parenthetical die codes are the damage codes. The actual character stats (attributes/skills) are everything starting with "All stats are 2D except:" and ending with the period after the character's brawling skill. Then we've got the character's move score. Then equipment and weapons with the armor (its stats) and weapons. This short-form character stats format is talked about a bit on R&E p.205 (Extras) and the chapter also refers to the Gamemaster Handbook, but you may also find the Star Wars Style Guide for WEG Writers helpful.

The short form stormtrooper stats are probably good enough as a quick reference for each adventure, but I'm thinking that somewhere in the document it would probably be best to also have long form 2e stats that include the other things like MFTAS and utility belts (The Rebel SpecForce Handbook p.98-99)

Either way, I do not see any reason to reformat the stats. For things that have existing 2e stats, we can just copy/paste to port them in as-in from whatever source we get them from. I should reiterate that the final outcome of this project isn't a forum thread, but rather a PDF that is stored in the Library (and can be downloaded). We want all the stat formatting to match the WEG 2e books.

The actual conversion work needed for this project is the creation of new 2e stat blocks for the 1e characters and things that do not have 1e stats. For characters, that is where the 1e to 2e Skill Conversion guidelines (2nd tab) will come in handy.

I'll try to work on the 1e core adventure so everyone can see an example.
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klhaviation
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2023 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like one could create Classic Adventures volume 6-9 out of the adventures. After R&R is complete, I would like to work on this (and Adventure journal 16 and 17). I'm bad at conversions.... I'm a designer not a game guru. If you get the stat blocks worked out, I can set up a document template to look like Classic Adventures vol 5 format. I think there is more than enough to fill out 3 more books and complete the 1st Ed.

Crackens Field guide is a bit harder. The jury rigging rules are already published, but things like the computer power rules need some thought.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2023 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my research to find stats for Agent Tiree and R2-D0 for the "Rebel Breakout" adventure, I rediscovered the "Rookies: No Turning Back" web comic adaptation (there's also a comic adaptation of the events leading up the adventure). For the "Rebel Breakout" 2e stats section, I'd like to beef it up with images from the Rookies comic. I'm thinking I'd also like to stat out the Rookies rebels as pre-gen starting characters that are included for possible use in the adventure since we have images of them available.

Agent Tiree (Tay Vanis) and Deo reappeared in The Game Chambers of Questal adventure which has a 2e adaptation appearing in Classic Adventures v5. Tiree was never statted out in 1e or 2e at all, but Deo was statted out in both 1e and 2e for the The Game Chambers of Questal. So I've got a basis for Deo's stats. In re-skimming "Rebel Breakout" I noticed a couple other things that I missed in my first list that need addressed. I updated the list in the second post of this thread.

There are several instances throughout the adventure where the difficulty of an action is provided in text as 5, 10, 15, or 20. I want to start this first section of the document with a chart that correlates those to the 2e chart with ranges and difficulty level names (but complete the chart with the remaining 2e difficulty levels for the sake of completeness). And I'll include the short-form stormtrooper stats in the sequence of where they first appear in relation to the other stats in the adventure (and for every adventure), but I think I'll just have the long-form stormtrooper stats in an Appendix of the whole document as they appear in most every adventure.

klhaviation wrote:
I feel like one could create Classic Adventures volume 6-9 out of the adventures. After R&R is complete, I would like to work on this (and Adventure journal 16 and 17). I'm bad at conversions.... I'm a designer not a game guru. If you get the stat blocks worked out, I can set up a document template to look like Classic Adventures vol 5 format. I think there is more than enough to fill out 3 more books and complete the 1st Ed.

Well this project will create the stats. The concept here was that you can have the original 1e adventure and then use this document for everything you need to adapt the 1e adventure in 2e without having to convert everything yourself. If you want to take it a step further by using these stats in full 2e adaptations of the 1e modules never officially updated to 2e, you certainly could, but that is above and beyond the scope of this project.
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