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Hypermatter, hyperspace and special materials
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boccione2k
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:23 am    Post subject: Hypermatter, hyperspace and special materials Reply with quote

This is my take on star wars proliferation of incredibily exotic materials and magic space cristals, and on hyperspace medium.

It is estabilished in canon that hyperspace contain hypermatter, and that realspace matter cast a mass shadow on hyperspace.

So in my SWU specific concentration of hypermatter of a peculiar composition cast a "hyper shadow" on realspace. The interaction between hyper shadow and a massive, energetic object (a star core, a planetary nucleus, etc) is responsible for the existance of those rare elements like coaxium, hyperbarides, kyber cristals and such. Naturally, one have to dig deep to reach them (like we see on Solo for the coaxium or in rogue one where Chirrut say that "the strongest stars have a kyber core").

Also, as the realspace is filled with various concentrations of radiation and diffuse hydrogen, so hyperspace is filled with various concentrations of hyperspace equivalents, that react violently with realspace matter.

This creates regions of hyperspace that cannot be traversed even in the absence of mass shadows, or that have to be navigated slowly, until a good understanding of that region dynamic is understood enough to develop a route quicker and safer.

In this way I can explain with enough plausibility how the super materials exist, and I have a framework explaining how the hyperspace "on the road and off road" concept works.


Fell free to shoot holes on this theory, the more tight I can make this the more my group (with two engineers and a nuclear physicist) will be happy!
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it.

Some players always want that little extra layer of plausibility.

I personally think the universe is vast enough that strange materials might exist naturally in 'realspace'. Especially in another Galaxy. Some physicists say they can't rule out entire galaxies made of antimatter for instance.

But if you're going to have a thing called 'hyperspace' it will have its own physics to be explored sure enough.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no fan of the proliferation of magic crystal tech, but a lot of your thoughts on the nature of hyperspace travel parallel my own. My thinking on coaxium is more that it's a naturally occuring, if rare, element that has been found to significantly boost the energy output of hypermatter in reaction chambers.

One theory I've come up with is that a ship's hyperdrive field acts as the equivalent of a navigation shield while in hyperspace, and that impacts with hypermatter particulate (effectively gaseous hypermatter) give off radiation that is detectable by the ship's sensors. Increased radiation levels equal increased particle density in hyperspace, which also creates something of a "drag" effect as a trade-off between drive power, shield strength, velocity, etc. This ties in with the radiation surge result on the Astrogation Mishap Chart; the navcomputer can adjust its speed to reduce impacts, thus reducing radiation levels, but this increases the length of the trip due to lower speed.

Here's a topic discussing the intricacies of Hypermatter in the SWU, which I think you'll find interesting.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Hypermatter, hyperspace and special materials Reply with quote

boccione2k wrote:
This is my take on star wars proliferation of incredibily exotic materials and magic space cristals, and on hyperspace medium.

It is estabilished in canon that hyperspace contain hypermatter, and that realspace matter cast a mass shadow on hyperspace.

So in my SWU specific concentration of hypermatter of a peculiar composition cast a "hyper shadow" on realspace. The interaction between hyper shadow and a massive, energetic object (a star core, a planetary nucleus, etc) is responsible for the existance of those rare elements like coaxium, hyperbarides, kyber cristals and such. Naturally, one have to dig deep to reach them (like we see on Solo for the coaxium or in rogue one where Chirrut say that "the strongest stars have a kyber core").

Also, as the realspace is filled with various concentrations of radiation and diffuse hydrogen, so hyperspace is filled with various concentrations of hyperspace equivalents, that react violently with realspace matter.

This creates regions of hyperspace that cannot be traversed even in the absence of mass shadows, or that have to be navigated slowly, until a good understanding of that region dynamic is understood enough to develop a route quicker and safer.

In this way I can explain with enough plausibility how the super materials exist, and I have a framework explaining how the hyperspace "on the road and off road" concept works.


Fell free to shoot holes on this theory, the more tight I can make this the more my group (with two engineers and a nuclear physicist) will be happy!

That works.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Hypermatter, hyperspace and special materials Reply with quote

boccione2k wrote:
So in my SWU specific concentration of hypermatter of a peculiar composition cast a "hyper shadow" on realspace. The interaction between hyper shadow and a massive, energetic object (a star core, a planetary nucleus, etc) is responsible for the existance of those rare elements like coaxium, hyperbarides, kyber cristals and such. Naturally, one have to dig deep to reach them (like we see on Solo for the coaxium or in rogue one where Chirrut say that "the strongest stars have a kyber core").

But, per Solo, coaxium was mined on Kessel, and not in the core of a star. How does that square with your concept?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Hypermatter, hyperspace and special materials Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
boccione2k wrote:
a star core, a planetary nucleus, etc

But, per Solo, coaxium was mined on Kessel, and not in the core of a star. How does that square with your concept?

He said planetary nucleus and coaxium is mined from a planet.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Hypermatter, hyperspace and special materials Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
He said planetary nucleus

I've never heard the term "planetary nucleus" before, and the closest an internet search could give me was "planetary nebula". Assuming he's talking about a planet's core, that raises new questions as to mining the stuff, like how did it migrate out from the planet's core to the outer crust in sufficient amounts to be mineable?
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Scots Dragon
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, coaxium is a plot device best left ignored because it honestly raises more problems than anything else. If hyperfuel's so scarce and valuable, how come the Empire has enough to run not one, but two whole Death Stars, plus fleets of thousands of ships?

Also it's very clearly in Solo purely to bump the rating down to family film.

This is literally the first time we hear of Kessel as anything other than being home to the spice mines. And obviously they didn't want to deal with the obvious issue of the hero of their film being a drug runner and actually depicting that, even though it's been pretty clear that's what Han Solo's been smuggling for decades now.

Coaxium also naturally crystallises, so it's yet more magical space crystal technology.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scots Dragon wrote:
Honestly, coaxium is a plot device best left ignored because it honestly raises more problems than anything else.

True. My suggestion above (essentially treating it like dilithium crystals in Trek, as a reaction component in hypermatter reactors) was more of a contingency in case I absolutely had to include it in my SWU for some reason.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scots Dragon wrote:
Also it's very clearly in Solo purely to bump the rating down to family film.

This is literally the first time we hear of Kessel as anything other than being home to the spice mines. And obviously they didn't want to deal with the obvious issue of the hero of their film being a drug runner and actually depicting that, even though it's been pretty clear that's what Han Solo's been smuggling for decades now.

Good point. In fact, Threepio specifically refers to “the spice mines of Kessel” in the opening scenes of ANH, so unless there’s some way to resolve that contradiction, Solo is in conflict with Star Wars canon.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Scots Dragon wrote:
Also it's very clearly in Solo purely to bump the rating down to family film.

This is literally the first time we hear of Kessel as anything other than being home to the spice mines. And obviously they didn't want to deal with the obvious issue of the hero of their film being a drug runner and actually depicting that, even though it's been pretty clear that's what Han Solo's been smuggling for decades now.

Good point. In fact, Threepio specifically refers to “the spice mines of Kessel” in the opening scenes of ANH, so unless there’s some way to resolve that contradiction, Solo is in conflict with Star Wars canon.


That's relatively simple... more than spice is mined at Kessel. Perhaps droids, unaffected by spice, are preferred for the spice mines, while humanoids are used elsewhere (like with coaxium).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Quote:
In fact, Threepio specifically refers to “the spice mines of Kessel” in the opening scenes of ANH, so unless there’s some way to resolve that contradiction, Solo is in conflict with Star Wars canon.


That's relatively simple... more than spice is mined at Kessel. Perhaps droids, unaffected by spice, are preferred for the spice mines, while humanoids are used elsewhere (like with coaxium).

But in Solo, the droids were working the coaxium mines, not the spice mines. In fact, it was a major plot point in the coaxium heist that L3-37 incited a droid rebellion to disrupt mine security.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: Hypermatter, hyperspace, special materials, and Kessel Reply with quote

They had droids and slaves of various species there. But that wasn't the point.

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
He said planetary nucleus

I've never heard the term "planetary nucleus" before, and the closest an internet search could give me was "planetary nebula". Assuming he's talking about a planet's core, that raises new questions as to mining the stuff, like how did it migrate out from the planet's core to the outer crust in sufficient amounts to be mineable?

Yes, he meant planet core. Look, he said these substances are created by the interaction of stars and planets with hyper shadows, not that they necessarily are created at the exact spot of the planet core. When you are making up scientific gobbledegook it isn't always necessary to be extremely detailed and precise. I mean, we can use are own imaginations too. The coaxium could have formed during the system formation, and migrated up from the core before the planet solidified. Not a big deal.

Scots Dragon wrote:
If hyperfuel's so scarce and valuable, how come the Empire has enough to run not one, but two whole Death Stars, plus fleets of thousands of ships?

According to Rogue One, the first Death Star was ran on different magical crystals, kyber. Cool They got a bunch from Jedha before they blew up Jedha City. But yes, plot devices indeed. I find that I for one am not too concerned about what fuels or hyperfuels or magic crystals SW tech runs on.

CRMcNeill wrote:
Good point. In fact, Threepio specifically refers to “the spice mines of Kessel” in the opening scenes of ANH, so unless there’s some way to resolve that contradiction, Solo is in conflict with Star Wars canon.

She wasn't making the point that Solo removed spice from Kessel and replaced it with coaxium because that didn't happen. It was merely added to Kessel lore that, in addition to spice, there was also coaxium.

The purpose of that certainly could have been to avoid suggesting Han was a "drug trafficker". Ultimately it doesn't really matter to the story that they are not smuggling spice. Coaxium is more valuable, much more dangerous since it can explode if not processed in time, and it was used to save themselves in a way that spice couldn't have. It makes sense from every dramatic standpoint to be smuggling coaxium (instead of ho-hum boring spice) in a very exciting and adventurous film.

There is no conflict. In the Solo film, there is still plenty of spice in Kessel. That wasn't at all changed by Solo. The spice mines of Kessel are seen in Solo and are still there when they are mentioned 10 years later by Threepio in ANH. Solo comes to Disney+ on July 9th, and I suggest rewatching it to not just depend on your memory of a single viewing two years ago and declare film contradictions where they blatantly don't exist.

If aliens come to Earth and start mining resources, they aren't going to only get one substance. Planets like Earth and Kessel are big. They can have multiple resources.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scots Dragon wrote:
If hyperfuel's so scarce and valuable, how come the Empire has enough to run not one, but two whole Death Stars, plus fleets of thousands of ships?



Meh. Not an issue for me. Oil is an Earth commodity that is considered rare and valuable enough to make nations and individuals wealthy.
Corporations will go to extreme and harsh environments and spend incredible amounts to obtain it.

Nations will go to war with each other to secure an ongoing supply of it, even while burning vast quantities of it to do so.

Yet its products are ubiquitous enough that they are used everywhere on Earth.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scots Dragon wrote:
If hyperfuel's so scarce and valuable, how come the Empire has enough to run not one, but two whole Death Stars, plus fleets of thousands of ships?


Well, there was no mention in Solo that the fuel was scarce. Only that it was, among food and medicine, an asset of competition between crime syndicates. It was valuable at that time because the Imperial economy was set on military expansion, especially increase the Imperial Navy.
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