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The Will of the Force
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Fallon Kell

Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Sounds to me like yoda would make a great politician!

lordnordeth wrote:
A big part of the reason the Force was left to be so vague, was so that everyone could see part of what they believe in it.

Sounds to me like Lucas would make a good politician...
...Okay, maybe not.
I do agree, though, that the Force is intentionally vague. Maybe because it appeals to more people, or maybe because Lucas' philosophy was also vague. The trouble is that RPG rules and concepts are fairly concrete and the force won't solidify enough to become part of the system, without somehow fundamentally changing its nature.
Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier

Complete Starship Construction System
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Joined: 27 May 2018
Posts: 426

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for "digging up the old fossil" but just to clarify:

For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.

2 of 3 phrases are "backwards" in Yoda's style. So just to make sure: could the part about the Force be also backward?

This would support the later idea that life is just a part of the Force, not a spring necessary to create it...?

Just like later word of Jinn "without midichlorians life could not exist and we would have no knowledge of the Force"?

I have brought it up because I had encountered two different translations of that part:

1) "Life creates it" so life is the origin of the Force
2) Backward version that can be translated as "it (the Force) creates life"

No. 1 is consistent with the early explanation given in Ep. IV "energy field generated by all living things"...
Don’t Let the Rules Get in the Way of a Good Story.
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Supreme Chancellor (Owner/Admin)

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 7702
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few answers...

Yoda isn't completely consistent with his Yoda-speak. When we can figure out what he means, he uses it. (We can even divine the meaning of really clunky statements like, "Around the survivors a perimeter create.") In lines where the intended meaning might be confused, he tends to speak in normal speak. So I think the intended meaning of "Life creates it, makes it grow" is what it sounds like. Lucas has made statements along those lines as well. However, this does not exclude the opposite, so Yoda may not be stating the full picture.

On one level I tend to think of it like which came first, the chicken or the egg. Life creates the Force, and the Force creates life. (But of course, if you go back far enough, even the chicken/egg question has a technical answer. The egg came before wild jungle fowl evolved into chickens.)

My SWU has a common creation myth throughout many seemingly unrelated cultures around the galaxy. When devising this I was influenced by a Hindu creation myth as told by Joseph Campbell and it deals with the primordial deities that came before the Whills and the origin of the Force. Part of it is this...

In the wake of the big bang was the first Being. The first feeling It felt was fear of being alone, so it split into two, a male and female. Then the second feeling they felt was desire for each other, so they procreated and the female later gave birth to a daughter, Chaos. Then an imbalance began to grow between the mother and the father, the mother feeling more desire than fear, and the father feeling more fear than desire. They later conceived a second child, but while the mother was pregnant, the father began to feel fearful of being outnumbered. Before the mother gave birth, a little imp Evil came out of the father's head and ran down the father's arm into his the father's hand. Evil pulled out a sword cut into the mother's belly. The mother's body died but her spirit didn't - It became the Life Force of the universe. The child born out of death became Death. The father came to represent the physical aspects of the universe and order.

The mother is known as Astra the Mother Star (the name being related to both stars and spirit). So the life Force of all living beings comes from Astra, the spirit of the universe. When a living being's physical life begins, their individual life Force comes from the greater Force of the universe and takes on a specific form, but it is not cut off from the greater Force so it is still a part of that. When that being dies, their identity dissolves and their individual Force remerges completely with the universe's Force. Except for Force ghosts that retain identity beyond physical death.

Or something like that. Cool
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