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Armour Without Location
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
True, it won't be a killing shot, but it would be more able to disable the person.

No, that’s the problem; because of how the Character Damage chart is structured, hitting an unarmored limb is actually more likely to be a killing shot because of how the math of damage vs soak works, even though there are fewer vital points (you pretty much have to hit a major artery to get a Mortally Wounded result).
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, the damage system as is, is rather easy to kill, even hitting someone in the hand..
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
True, the damage system as is, is rather easy to kill, even hitting someone in the hand..

Exactly. Like I said above, if this scenario happened in a game, I’d downgrade a Killed result on an arm or leg to Mortally Wounded and Maimed (as in, dying but saveable, albeit with permanent damage to the limb).

Which, by extension, is one possible answer to the OP; take a Killed hit on the normal Damage chart, then roll on the Hit Location chart to see if you lucked out and took the hit somewhere survivable and just had your arm or leg blown off.

I recall another system using a Hit Location chart for Frag Grenades, where a hit from a Grenade got 1-3 rolls on a Hit Location chart to determine how much shrapnel hit the target. I might have to do some digging when I get home...
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RyanDarkstar
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
True, the damage system as is, is rather easy to kill, even hitting someone in the hand..


I'm sure it's been shared before, but you made me think of this: Stormtrooper Down.
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dph
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=193321#193321

I'm actually quite astonished and upset by that response.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dph wrote:
https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=193321#193321

I'm actually quite astonished and upset by that response.

I don't know what specifically is upsetting you, but I do appreciate that you are now at least acknowledging my response and not just creating a new thread on this topic as if my post hadn't existed.

You had asked if there were official rules for using armor without hit location, and I supplied R&E page #s and quotes from RAW to answer that there were official rules. Perhaps there is a misunderstanding of my post so let's try the example route.

Take a look at the armor stats on R&E p.234. The body part in parentheses is if using optional hit location so that can be ignored if not. The Blast Helmet gives +1D physical, +1 energy. The Blast Vest also gives +1D physical, +1 energy. If a character wears both, officially they stack to provide +2D physical, +2 energy to overall damage resistance rolls. The combination provides the same physical protection as stormtrooper armor, but still has less energy protection.

If using optional hit location, the same bonus amounts apply to rolls, but only benefit the body parts they cover.

That is wonky. I didn't say they were good rules, but there are official rules. In my last post I agreed with you that the only way not using hit location would work is to restat all the armor to try and average things out (like D&D). That's exactly what I've done for my game.

In my last post I tried to (1) praise you for posting this thread, (2) answer your question about RAW, (3) agree with your statement that about how not using hit location should work, and (4) explain my "narrative" hit location method. Cool?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A thought on this...

IMO, resolving hits to specific locations on characters won’t work, as there are too many interconnected factors in play when determining penalties.

Instead, I suggest treating Armor like partial Cover, so that an attacker has the option of trying to shoot “around” the armor by aiming for weak spots, but at the cost of a dice penalty on the gunnery roll.

To convert existing armor, take the armor coverage from the WEG stats and apply to the following table:
    Head / Torso = 1/4 (-1D)
    Head & Torso = 1/2 (-2D)
    Head, Torso & either Arms or Legs = 2/3 (-3D)
    Head, Torso, Arms & Legs = 3/4 (-4D)
    Head, Torso, Arms, Legs & Joints = Full (can not shoot around armor)
So...
    Head / Torso = Blast Helmet or Vest
    Head & Torso = Blast Helmet & Vest combined
    Head, Torso & Arms / Legs = Armor suit with partial limb coverage, like Boba Fett’s armor.
    Head, Torso, Arms & Legs = Armor suit with some weak spots (usually joints)
    Head, Torso, Arms, Legs & Joints = Armor suit with reinforced joints, such Radtrooper Armor and most power armors.
To use this in-game, a shooter declares he’s trying to aim around the armor, and applies the listed penalty to Blaster for the amount of cover the target’s armor provides. If the shot misses, it has no effect (is presumed to have missed entirely or struck a glancing blow and ricocheted off), but if it hits, the target may not apply any armor dice to their Soak roll.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a decent idea.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another possible option would be to put the Hit Location roll before the Damage roll, so if a character is only wearing partial armor (say, helmet and blast vest), they can use that result to determine whether or not they get to add their Armor value to their Soak roll...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Another possible option would be to put the Hit Location roll before the Damage roll, so if a character is only wearing partial armor (say, helmet and blast vest), they can use that result to determine whether or not they get to add their Armor value to their Soak roll...

Per R&E p.234, that's already the way hit location works with armor in RAW.
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