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Rogue 1 ish gritter game
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also for pure 'feel', you can make the subject matter darker, beyond just making Storm Troopers competent.

The Empire can be some bad dudes.

You want a chill, go ahead and look up CRMcNeill's posts on COMPNOR.


https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5379&highlight=compnor
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lurker
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
Also for pure 'feel', you can make the subject matter darker, beyond just making Storm Troopers competent.

The Empire can be some bad dudes.

You want a chill, go ahead and look up CRMcNeill's posts on COMPNOR.


https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5379&highlight=compnor


NICE, thanks for sharing it !
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also this - Horrific Imperial Experiment Concepts - if you're looking for some nasty things for COMPNOR to do.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bissler wrote:
...One of my players was killed outright this week in exactly this circumstance, and that was against a blaster that dealt 4D damage. The previous week, they came dangerously close to a TPK as they ran out of medpacs, with several characters wounded and struggling!
The Bissler wrote:
I think the game can have a gritty feel to it, certainly until your players really boost their Dodge and Blaster skills; if a player suffers a wound, the 1D reduction in their Strength means a 2nd hit usually incapacitates...

Per R&E p.80, "A character always rolls his full Strength to resist damage (even if wounded)". It seems you are having characters reduce their roll when wounded. Maybe that's how you want it to work but since you mentioned a character death and near TPK, I'd thought I'd mention it in case you were just misinterpreting RAW.

I agree with RAW in this respect because characters are already penalized for being wounded when wounded again by the way that wounds accumulate to worse wounds. FYI.
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The Bissler
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
The Bissler wrote:
...One of my players was killed outright this week in exactly this circumstance, and that was against a blaster that dealt 4D damage. The previous week, they came dangerously close to a TPK as they ran out of medpacs, with several characters wounded and struggling!
The Bissler wrote:
I think the game can have a gritty feel to it, certainly until your players really boost their Dodge and Blaster skills; if a player suffers a wound, the 1D reduction in their Strength means a 2nd hit usually incapacitates...

Per R&E p.80, "A character always rolls his full Strength to resist damage (even if wounded)". It seems you are having characters reduce their roll when wounded. Maybe that's how you want it to work but since you mentioned a character death and near TPK, I'd thought I'd mention it in case you were just misinterpreting RAW.

I agree with RAW in this respect because characters are already penalized for being wounded when wounded again by the way that wounds accumulate to worse wounds. FYI.


Thanks for this Whill, interesting to note! We're using REUP rules which don't clarify this point as they say you roll Strength against attacks - but that wounds cause -1D to all skills and attribute checks. It probably balances out because there's nothing about accumulated wounds. What I have discovered though is that they can use Character Points and Force Points to augment their Strength rolls (although, for the latter, I wouldn't allow them to regain their FP for a selfish action). I'll have a chat with my players to see what their thoughts are but they have been enjoying the danger of how we've been playing it.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bissler wrote:
I think the game can have a gritty feel to it, certainly until your players really boost their Dodge and Blaster skills; if a player suffers a wound, the 1D reduction in their Strength means a 2nd hit usually incapacitates. One of my players was killed outright this week in exactly this circumstance, and that was against a blaster that dealt 4D damage. The previous week, they came dangerously close to a TPK as they ran out of medpacs, with several characters wounded and struggling! Also, any weapons with scale damage are extremely likely to put an end to your team!

I think it's probably more on the GM to set the tone of the game, you can probably make the rules feel gritty or high adventure depending on how you describe the settings and action.


Being wounded, never impacts one's Strength score for resisting further damage..

I've been in a one off, where the DM was trying OUT a HR that you DID LOSE -1d from your str for soaking, every time you got wounded.. BUT he also gave folks 3 wound levels, before one got incap...
The DM polled us after the game, ONLY ME and one other were ok with the rule. All the other 4, hated it.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Being wounded, never impacts one's Strength score for resisting further damage.

Right. That is RAW in all editions.

The Bissler wrote:
Thanks for this Whill, interesting to note! We're using REUP rules which don't clarify this point as they say you roll Strength against attacks - but that wounds cause -1D to all skills and attribute checks. It probably balances out because there's nothing about accumulated wounds. What I have discovered though is that they can use Character Points and Force Points to augment their Strength rolls (although, for the latter, I wouldn't allow them to regain their FP for a selfish action). I'll have a chat with my players to see what their thoughts are but they have been enjoying the danger of how we've been playing it.

REUP is R&E updated and further expanded. To clarify, REUP does specify. FYI, that same exact rules quote I posted in my last post is also in REUP, and the REUP page # just happens to be the same as in R&E. And yes, in REUP wounds accumulate in the same exact way they do in R&E. On REUP, this is described in p.100-101. By wound accumulation, I mean, Wounded + Wounded = Wounded Twice, Wounded Twice + Wounded = Incapacitated. And so on. Any wound can bring death, but if not then it definitely brings a character closer to death.

From a game mechanical perspective, in RAW (all published editions of this game and REUP) characters are penalized when resisting damage by the fact that their new wounds accumulate with an existing wound status from prior wounds to make a worse wound status (with a worse penalty or outcome). It is intentional by design that damage resistance rolls for new wounds are not penalized by existing would penalties. If you also make a character subtract a die code penalty from already being wounded when they get a new wound, you are penalizing them on both the front end and the back end. That's super deadly.

If that's the way you and your group want to run it, then of course that's the way it should be. It just seems that you came to running it that way based on a misinterpretation of the rules rather than understanding it and intentionally choosing to double-penalize wounded characters. If you do stick with your way, I would suggest you have all the players make several replacement PCs that can easily be rotated in as their PCs die off.

If you are interested in a more in-depth analysis of the game's damage/wound system (and the mods I've introduced) you may find this thread helpful.
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The Bissler
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
The Bissler wrote:
I think the game can have a gritty feel to it, certainly until your players really boost their Dodge and Blaster skills; if a player suffers a wound, the 1D reduction in their Strength means a 2nd hit usually incapacitates. One of my players was killed outright this week in exactly this circumstance, and that was against a blaster that dealt 4D damage. The previous week, they came dangerously close to a TPK as they ran out of medpacs, with several characters wounded and struggling! Also, any weapons with scale damage are extremely likely to put an end to your team!

I think it's probably more on the GM to set the tone of the game, you can probably make the rules feel gritty or high adventure depending on how you describe the settings and action.


Being wounded, never impacts one's Strength score for resisting further damage..

I've been in a one off, where the DM was trying OUT a HR that you DID LOSE -1d from your str for soaking, every time you got wounded.. BUT he also gave folks 3 wound levels, before one got incap...
The DM polled us after the game, ONLY ME and one other were ok with the rule. All the other 4, hated it.


Ha! I polled my players last night and they came in at 4-1 in favour of maintaining the -1D to Strength for each roll. They really like the lethality of it and that their characters are at far greater risk.

The context of this is that we played a 50+ session SW campaign a few years back where we didn't apply this rule. There was only 1 character death in that campaign and that was really because one player got bored and deliberately killed his character off. It got to the point where they were virtually gods so they love this!
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The Bissler
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Being wounded, never impacts one's Strength score for resisting further damage.

Right. That is RAW in all editions.

The Bissler wrote:
Thanks for this Whill, interesting to note! We're using REUP rules which don't clarify this point as they say you roll Strength against attacks - but that wounds cause -1D to all skills and attribute checks. It probably balances out because there's nothing about accumulated wounds. What I have discovered though is that they can use Character Points and Force Points to augment their Strength rolls (although, for the latter, I wouldn't allow them to regain their FP for a selfish action). I'll have a chat with my players to see what their thoughts are but they have been enjoying the danger of how we've been playing it.

REUP is R&E updated and further expanded. To clarify, REUP does specify. FYI, that same exact rules quote I posted in my last post is also in REUP, and the REUP page # just happens to be the same as in R&E. And yes, in REUP wounds accumulate in the same exact way they do in R&E. On REUP, this is described in p.100-101. By wound accumulation, I mean, Wounded + Wounded = Wounded Twice, Wounded Twice + Wounded = Incapacitated. And so on. Any wound can bring death, but if not then it definitely brings a character closer to death.

From a game mechanical perspective, in RAW (all published editions of this game and REUP) characters are penalized when resisting damage by the fact that their new wounds accumulate with an existing wound status from prior wounds to make a worse wound status (with a worse penalty or outcome). It is intentional by design that damage resistance rolls for new wounds are not penalized by existing would penalties. If you also make a character subtract a die code penalty from already being wounded when they get a new wound, you are penalizing them on both the front end and the back end. That's super deadly.

If that's the way you and your group want to run it, then of course that's the way it should be. It just seems that you came to running it that way based on a misinterpretation of the rules rather than understanding it and intentionally choosing to double-penalize wounded characters. If you do stick with your way, I would suggest you have all the players make several replacement PCs that can easily be rotated in as their PCs die off.

If you are interested in a more in-depth analysis of the game's damage/wound system (and the mods I've introduced) you may find this thread helpful.


We do use the 1 wound to 2 wounds to incapacitated rule. But they still don't want any changes. Thanks though Whill!
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bissler wrote:

Ha! I polled my players last night and they came in at 4-1 in favour of maintaining the -1D to Strength for each roll. They really like the lethality of it and that their characters are at far greater risk.

The context of this is that we played a 50+ session SW campaign a few years back where we didn't apply this rule. There was only 1 character death in that campaign and that was really because one player got bored and deliberately killed his character off. It got to the point where they were virtually gods so they love this!


Well then, that's their choice, and GOOD for your players, wanting the game to be more lethal.
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