| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Straxus
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 106
Location: Norway
|
 Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:20 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| I've always thought RAW was a bit vague on this, but I've interpreted the "if you fail, loose half the cp"-rule to only apply if someone tries to raise their attribute ABOVE racial maximum. I thought it was a bit harsh, otherwise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14030
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've also interpreted the whole "you roll off", to only be for when you try to go above attribute max. Till then, there's no roll off.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm okay with it being for any attempt to improve the Attribute. Hard work counts, but so does natural talent, and in reality, not everyone has what it takes to push themselves to the same physical limits. No matter how hard I work, I will never be able to swim as fast as Michael Phelps or lift like Hafþór Björnsson, because some people are just plain built for it, and others are not.
As such, I'm kinda on the fence as to whether or not I'd allow an Attribute to be improved at all. However, if I were to allow it, I'm okay with the existing limitations, as sometimes all your hard work to improve doesn't pay off as well as you'd hoped, if at all. Sometimes you just hit a wall or a plateau, and for the most part, the RAW does a good job representing this.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | I've also interpreted the whole "you roll off", to only be for when you try to go above attribute max. Till then, there's no roll off. |
Thats the way I read it as well
_________________
Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Straxus
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 106
Location: Norway
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I'm okay with it being for any attempt to improve the Attribute. Hard work counts, but so does natural talent, and in reality, not everyone has what it takes to push themselves to the same physical limits. No matter how hard I work, I will never be able to swim as fast as Michael Phelps or lift like Hafþór Björnsson, because some people are just plain built for it, and others are not. |
But isn't Björnson a good example of someone with STR attribute above Human "maximum"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1829
Location: Norway
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Straxus wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | I'm okay with it being for any attempt to improve the Attribute. Hard work counts, but so does natural talent, and in reality, not everyone has what it takes to push themselves to the same physical limits. No matter how hard I work, I will never be able to swim as fast as Michael Phelps or lift like Hafþór Björnsson, because some people are just plain built for it, and others are not. |
But isn't Björnson a good example of someone with STR attribute above Human "maximum"? |
The same can be said about the royal guards. They have a 5D dexteriy which is above the listed human maximum of 4D. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Straxus wrote: | | But isn't Björnson a good example of someone with STR attribute above Human "maximum"? |
In the way the game uses "maximum", yes, but my point is that Björnson was "ahead of the game", so to speak, in that he was born with certain innate qualities that made him better adapted to boosting his strength than others. You can't just grab some random person off the street and force them through a weight training program and turn them into Björnson 2.0; you have to select for natural talent and capability.
To bring this back into the RAW, I would suggest an additional rule to the effect that, if a character fails the Attribute Boost roll vs. the GM, they have hit their personal Attribute Maximum, and can make no further rolls to attempt to improve that Attribute (they can still improve individual skills as normal).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Straxus wrote: | | But isn't Björnson a good example of someone with STR attribute above Human "maximum"? |
In the way the game uses "maximum", yes, but my point is that Björnson was "ahead of the game", so to speak, in that he was born with certain innate qualities that made him better adapted to boosting his strength than others. You can't just grab some random person off the street and force them through a weight training program and turn them into Björnson 2.0; you have to select for natural talent and capability. |
Couldn't this be somewhat modeled by the system as is, though?
I'm an average person; I have about a 2D+2 Strength (I'm big, but not terribly athletic). Conversely, I am quite smart (and humble), so I may be at a 3D+1 or so with Knowledge. Bjornson might have started at 4D Strength, and, through hard work, he's at 5D.
Now, if I wanted to improve my strength to 3D, I have to spend 20 CPs. But if I want to improve to 5D, so I could be Bjornsson 2: Bjorn Harder, I'm going to have to spend 20+30+30+30+40+40+40 CPs... 230 CPs. Bjornson, to reach that point, needed a mere 120 CPs to reach 5D.
That higher start, in part, indicates the superior natural talent.
_________________
"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That sounds more like an argument in favor of not being able to improve an Attribute at all.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In fact, I'm starting to think an Advantage/Disadvantage system would be a better explanation for above-Maximum Attributes. Something along the lines of "Exceptional Attribute" where for every Rank in that Advantage, you get +1 additional pip in that Attribute, with the stipulation that, on character creation, you put the Max Dice for your species in that Attribute.
That way, a Royal Guardsman would be explained by having three Ranks in the "Exceptional Attribute" Advantage, for a combined total of 5D (4D Human Maximum + 1D).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | That sounds more like an argument in favor of not being able to improve an Attribute at all. |
I don't see it as one.. Bjornson starts from a higher baseline, so it is easier for him to reach heights. I MIGHT be able to do that, but it would represent a ton more work... I'd have to reach his level, first, and then do all the work he had to do. Eventually, it would reach a point of diminishing returns for me, unless I was crazy dedicated.
_________________
"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MrNexx wrote: | | Bjornson starts from a higher baseline, so it is easier for him to reach heights. I MIGHT be able to do that, but it would represent a ton more work... I'd have to reach his level, first, and then do all the work he had to do. Eventually, it would reach a point of diminishing returns for me, unless I was crazy dedicated. |
But you're also going to reach a point where your body hits a physical limit. The limit may be vague and hard to define, but it is there, and his physical limit is higher than yours.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | That sounds more like an argument in favor of not being able to improve an Attribute at all. |
Like in my game. And not that anyone cares, but in my game only very rare NPCs could have attributes above species max. I may have never statted one out above (and can't remember for sure) so I just say very rare because never say never. PCs in in my game can't have attributes above species max, and I have an additional limit for PCs not being able to have any attributes above 5D, even if the species max is higher. That reduces player temptation to min-max.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | That way, a Royal Guardsman would be explained by having three Ranks in the "Exceptional Attribute" Advantage, for a combined total of 5D (4D Human Maximum + 1D). |
It could. Another possibility is, published stats are sometimes dumb and we don't accept the Royal Guardsmen DEX 5D as the inviolable word of God. Instead of making game rules to justify stats, we could just restat and reduce the Dex to something more reasonable.
Royal Guardsmen should appear in games extremely rarely. (Of course, garhkal attacked me with them at his table.) And even when they do appear, do they really need a 5D Dex? What does that give them that having a 4D Dex and a bunch of improved skills doesn't gives them? There just doesn't seem to be any inherent reason for them to even have 5D in Dex. Just saying!
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
