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Soaking Blaster Bolts
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Should characters be able to soak blaster bolts?
Yes
36%
 36%  [ 7 ]
No
63%
 63%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 19

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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:39 am    Post subject: Soaking Blaster Bolts Reply with quote

LIKE ALL POLLS HERE, VOTE ANONYMOUSLY!

In the 1e core rules, there was no soak for any type of successful normal damage attack. If the damage resistance roll was higher than the damage, the target was stunned. For blasters set on normal damage, the films didn't show damage less than what might be wounded, so I reinterpreted blaster stuns as grazes or near-misses that buzzed closed to the target's head, etc. The 1e Rules Upgrade did not change the damage/wound system.

The 1e Rules Companion in 1989 was the first time soak came into the game, but it was regulated to when the resistance roll was double the damage roll. So although it was rare, soaking blaster bolts became a thing. It gave me an uneasy feeling I haven't ever shook.

Then in in 1992, 2e came out and soak took over the entire realm of R>D which made soaking blaster bolts a lot more common. I can certainly agree that punches and some other things should have no effect if the resistance roll is high enough, but should blaster bolts? I can agree that no effect should be a possible result of getting hit by a blaster set on stun, but should a character be able able to soak a normal damage blaster bolt?

Soaking blaster bolts is an affront to my sense of Star Wars verisimilitude. In the films, blaster bolts can send people flying. Stormtroopers wearing armor are not shown getting stunned. If they get hit by a blaster bolt, they always go down. So do the heroes. Yes, the RPG should have things that don't appear in the films, but my game takes place in an SWU that the Lucas films and Disney anthology movies exist. I just have a hard time suspending disbelief with soaking blaster bolts.

I am considering just making a weapon-type specific house rule that blasters set on normal damage are an exception and the target (PC or NPC) is at least stunned even if they roll high enough to soak.

Should characters be able to soak blaster bolts? If nothing else, please at least vote. But I'd also love to see your comments too, even if you disagree with me. If you think the exception house rule is a good idea but certain situations should still allow for soak (like beskar armored characters), please chime in and let me know. Thank you!
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Last edited by Whill on Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow.. Something me and you agree on.. EGADS.
Quick, someone check the sun is still in the sky.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Wow.. Something me and you agree on.. EGADS.
Quick, someone check the sun is still in the sky.

LOL, I actually agree with you on a lot.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my game characters can soak blaster bolts, BUT it is based on size, not strength.

All human-sized characters roll 2D.

Small characters only roll 1D (Ewoks, Jawas etc)

Large characters roll 3D (Wookiees, Gammoreans)

Big beasts can roll 4D or more.

Armor, if worn can add dice to this roll.
------------------------

I find this makes blaster fights much more dangerous and gritty.
Blasters kill....pretty reliably.
If you have one out and ready, even a wookiee isn't likely to try any sudden moves.


Strength is used to soak melee and unarmed damage as normal.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a demishing soak system I use.
My character is hit he DOES take damage peropid.
However all damaged negated by a roll is not applied like normal
However he took damage, and the next hit in this round he soaks with a penalty on the roll.

Ever hit that he did not take damage from he suffers a 1Pip "strain" if you will.
hit again and he rolls his strength MINUS his accumulatedd pip.......

So a character with 3D strength, is hit but rolld 18 (not counting any exploding wilds)
vs the baster bolt that that came at him with a 4D roll of only 8 a disaster of a roll.

Howver he was hit, he does take damage.
So he takes basically non lethal non stun damage, this is applied with lowering his next "resist damage" roll by a pip.
If this is his second hit, and second time the rolls gave 0 damage, then he will be at a 2 pip penalty.

meaning if you re shot alot and take no damage, the sheer kietic impact, the force of the hit and this accumulated into the point where simply have no possiblity not to be injured
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
In my game characters can soak blaster bolts, BUT it is based on size, not strength.

All human-sized characters roll 2D.

Small characters only roll 1D (Ewoks, Jawas etc)

Large characters roll 3D (Wookiees, Gammoreans)

Big beasts can roll 4D or more.

Armor, if worn can add dice to this roll.
------------------------

I find this makes blaster fights much more dangerous and gritty.
Blasters kill....pretty reliably.
If you have one out and ready, even a wookiee isn't likely to try any sudden moves.


Strength is used to soak melee and unarmed damage as normal.

Does that tend to make character death, easier to come by?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm on the fence, as you make some valid points, and there certainly isn't a lot of evidence of characters soaking character-scale blaster bolts on-screen.

The one thing that comes to mind is that whether or not a character can soak damage could potentially be a feature of wearing armor. I'm not really sure how this would work, though; maybe roll armor separately, with the armor value applied both to the damage resistance roll and again subsequently to determine whether or not the character was Stunned or can just shrug it off.

Maybe if the armor dice result is 50% or greater of the Damage roll, the armor soaks the damage?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The poll is admittedly overly simplistic. For situations that don't destroy my sense of verisimilitude for Star Wars, I can see allowing blaster bolts to be soaked with the resistance roll higher than the damage roll.

Armor is the first one to come to my mind too, but then again, even armored characters in the six Lucas films are never shown to soak blaster bolts. Soaking (or only being stunned by) blasters bolts outside of video games is the domain of Disney. Captain Phasma's armor deflected a bolt in TLJ and that was at worst a stun in game terms. Mando's armor definitely soaks blaster bolts—He has been seen taking multiple consecutive blaster bolts that would overload his stun accumulation threshold in the game if they were not soaked.

Classic stormtroopers don't even appear to ever be only wounded. They seem to always be "I'ed" (incapacitated or worse), but I suppose some that are seen going down from a blast could be getting up the next round and that is just off screen. In the Lucas films you still never see what would be a soak or even stun in the game (meaning where troopers do not go down after taking a blaster hit). So if armor is a candidate for soaking blaster bolts in the game, I certainly don't think stormtrooper armor should be included. I've restatted stormtroopers and their armor for my game, and it only gives +1 protection against energy damage (yes, only one pip). I think that better reflects what we see in the films. Sure, there are better armors in my SWU, so maybe armors of a certain energy protection level or higher would be a candidate to allow soaking blaster bolts. It wouldn't my first choice to add crunchy rules like rolling separately for armor.

I guess my issue is mainly characters with soft fleshy bodies like humans. If a species has tough scales or a hard exoskeleton, maybe soaking wouldn't be too bad. The Verpine fluff even states that their exoskeleton can protect them against glancing blaster shots. So I'm thinking of just making it a rule for blaster weapons that minimum damage result is stunned even if the resistance roll soaks, with some exceptions, like certain species or armors.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

Then in in 1992, 2e came out and soak took over the entire realm of R>D which made soaking blaster bolts a lot more common. I can certainly agree that punches and some other things should have no effect if the resistance roll is high enough, but should blaster bolts? I can agree that no effect should be a possible result of getting hit by a blaster set on stun, but should a character be able able to soak a normal damage blaster bolt?

(...) Yes, the RPG should have things that don't appear in the films, but my game takes place in an SWU that the Lucas films and Disney anthology movies exist. I just have a hard time suspending disbelief with soaking blaster bolts.


I have always interpreted this soaking damage rule as the "last change dodge or near miss of an enemy". In movies we have plenty of examples. In Ep. IV untrained Luke and Han not being hit by numerous stormtroopers in narrow corridors of space station, R2 and C3PO crossing the corridor of Tantive IV where heavy fire was present, ect.

Kenobi took it to a different level by soaking Jango's rocket and Slave I cannons.*

*these are not the cannons used later in space fight.

This is a RPG's "plot armor" boosted with CP or FP if necessary. It compensated for the lack of dodge skill/ strong armor.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great examples. I also reinterpret the results like that, and I appreciate your efforts to help me.

I think that even only getting stunned from a blaster on normal damage setting is really pushing it, and I already reinterpret those as near misses where you feel the burn from the bolt as it wizzes by or it rings your ears. I really don't want to interpret soaks as near misses too, on top of interpreting stunned results, thus my feelings of needing to reduce soak for blaster bolts. So soaks becoming stuns are still interpreted as near-misses, but you have some effect. A true soak result is no effect at all. If you want no effect at all, raise your dodge skill and don't get hit in the first place, I'm saying.

Your kilometrage may vary.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Dredwulf60 wrote:
In my game characters can soak blaster bolts, BUT it is based on size, not strength.

All human-sized characters roll 2D.

Small characters only roll 1D (Ewoks, Jawas etc)

Large characters roll 3D (Wookiees, Gammoreans)

Big beasts can roll 4D or more.

Armor, if worn can add dice to this roll.
------------------------

I find this makes blaster fights much more dangerous and gritty.
Blasters kill....pretty reliably.
If you have one out and ready, even a wookiee isn't likely to try any sudden moves.


Strength is used to soak melee and unarmed damage as normal.

Does that tend to make character death, easier to come by?


Not really for me, but I can see how it could.
I developed that house rule for running my Mandalorians-based game. So ALL the players were wearing pretty decent armor almost ALL of the time.

It was necessary to maintain some threat to the game.

Plus I have a pretty liberal dodge/take cover system that really supports characters who take cover, so that having to actually roll a 'soak' against a blaster means that something has gone very wrong and it's your last chance to save your bacon.

I just don't like when players deduce that it's more effective to stand and soak incoming fire than it is to take cover and lose an action.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
I have a demishing soak system I use.
My character is hit he DOES take damage peropid.
However all damaged negated by a roll is not applied like normal
However he took damage, and the next hit in this round he soaks with a penalty on the roll.

Ever hit that he did not take damage from he suffers a 1Pip "strain" if you will.
hit again and he rolls his strength MINUS his accumulatedd pip.......

So a character with 3D strength, is hit but rolld 18 (not counting any exploding wilds)
vs the baster bolt that that came at him with a 4D roll of only 8 a disaster of a roll.

Howver he was hit, he does take damage.
So he takes basically non lethal non stun damage, this is applied with lowering his next "resist damage" roll by a pip.
If this is his second hit, and second time the rolls gave 0 damage, then he will be at a 2 pip penalty.

meaning if you re shot alot and take no damage, the sheer kietic impact, the force of the hit and this accumulated into the point where simply have no possiblity not to be injured

Well your "strain" is better than RAW in that you at least have a decreasing chance of soaking blaster bolts.

Dredwulf60 wrote:
In my game characters can soak blaster bolts, BUT it is based on size, not strength.

All human-sized characters roll 2D.

Small characters only roll 1D (Ewoks, Jawas etc)

Large characters roll 3D (Wookiees, Gammoreans)

Big beasts can roll 4D or more.

Armor, if worn can add dice to this roll.
------------------------

I find this makes blaster fights much more dangerous and gritty.
Blasters kill....pretty reliably.
If you have one out and ready, even a wookiee isn't likely to try any sudden moves.

Strength is used to soak melee and unarmed damage as normal.

I admire the simplicity of it, and I'll bet that does cut down on unarmored characters soaking blaster bolts.

garhkal wrote:
Does that tend to make character death, easier to come by?

Aww, look at garhkal being all concerned about PC death.

Dredwulf60 wrote:
I have a pretty liberal dodge/take cover system that really supports characters who take cover, so that having to actually roll a 'soak' against a blaster means that something has gone very wrong and it's your last chance to save your bacon.

I just don't like when players deduce that it's more effective to stand and soak incoming fire than it is to take cover and lose an action.

Nice. I'm similar, but characters don't always even lose an action. In my game you can still cover a short distance while dodging, so you can often dodge your way to cover.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:


I just don't like when players deduce that it's more effective to stand and soak incoming fire than it is to take cover and lose an action.


Sounds like a plan.

Quote:
Aww, look at garhkal being all concerned about PC death.


Maybe i'm getting soft in my old age. Well mid 40s at least. Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I haven't had that problem (the standing there and taking it). Even if players can soak it doesn't mean they will. Combat in D6 is deadly. If they stand around too much they won't be around long.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmanski wrote:
I guess I haven't had that problem (the standing there and taking it). Even if players can soak it doesn't mean they will. Combat in D6 is deadly. If they stand around too much they won't be around long.

I haven't had a problem with PCs standing there and taking hits. I've had PCs running away for cover and dodging, but flub the roll, get hit, and then get really lucky on the damage resistance roll and soak the blast. I've also had the opposite happen where a PC blasts an NPC who soaks it. It's not that it happens a lot. It's that every single time it does happen, it smacks me right out of the SWU. Soft fleshy characters like unarmored humans should not be able to soak blaster bolts, at all. Once is too much.
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