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New Starship Damage Chart
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Quote:
If all the shields have already been blown or the ship has no shields to begin with or, it suffers the Ionization result instead.

Or something to that effect.

That works.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I had a thought on my Critical Damage Rule proposal. I was somewhat stumped on a sixth option, but then something occurred to me: a fuel leak. I already have my Endurance Dice Rule, so it's conceivable that damage to the ship could also damage its fuel supply.

Of course, I'll need to work out a better conversion chart for the Endurance Dice, but I've been putting some thought into that, too.

So if I understand correctly, your fuel leak idea was just running out of consumables faster?

I was thinking something that would more directly affect the battle going on or whatever situation damaged the ship. Like maybe the leak caused a fuel injection problem where there are random minor power drains as the main power generator has an inconsistent supply of fuel.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn’t necessarily trying to restrict myself to short-term consequences, though. A fuel leak could, for example, force the characters to travel to the nearest planet for repairs and refueling, ala the “leaking hyperdrive” in TPM.

Of course, using fuel leaks as part of a critical damage table would necessitate ironing out the kinks in my Endurance dice rules, too...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I wasn’t necessarily trying to restrict myself to short-term consequences, though. A fuel leak could, for example, force the characters to travel to the nearest planet for repairs and refueling, ala the “leaking hyperdrive” in TPM.

That's not a bad idea. I think I've got my first and second fuel system damage effects now. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I had this idea awhile back, but lost track of where I'd posted it. I just stumbled across it tonight, and since it's applicable to Damage, I thought I'd go ahead and move it over here and incorporate it:
    1). Gunner declares which system he’s targeting: Maneuvering, Sensors, Weapons, Hyperdrive, Shields or Engines.

    2). Gunner then rolls to attack at -2D (effectively, shooting at a smaller Scale target).

    3). On a successful hit, do not roll on the random chart to see which system was damaged; just apply the result to the declared system as indicated by the Damage roll (Lightly Damaged, Heavily Damaged, etc.)

    4). On Severely Damaged, use the following results:
      Maneuvering = Controls Damaged
      Shields = Overloaded Reactor
      Engines = Dead In Space

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the concept. I didn't incorporate any "called shot" rule into my spaceship damage system and I won't for characters, but I can see adding something like this for scales above that.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I like the concept. I didn't incorporate any "called shot" rule into my spaceship damage system and I won't for characters, but I can see adding something like this for scales above characters.

There are a few options I came up with for Character-Scale, using the above rules:
    Hamstring: Shoot the target in their legs. On a successful hit, in addition to normal Damage, apply one Lost Move.

    Disarm: Shoot the target in the arm. On a successful hit, anything held in that hand is knocked out of the target's grasp, in addition to normal Damage.

    Headshot: Shoot the target in the head. Increase Damage level by one step.
There are some other possibilities, but those for sure.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
There are a few options I came up with for Character-Scale, using the above rules:
    ...
    Headshot: Shoot the target in the head. Increase Damage level by one step.
There are some other possibilities, but those for sure.

Sure. Personally, I like specific damage outcomes to remain in the realm of interpreting the results, so that more severe wound statuses are described as head wounds and vital organ torso wounds. So when a hit is first rolled, I don't describe the specific outcome of it until after the damage is rolled. I do this for a few reasons:

(1) A system like you suggest still allows for damage outcomes where a defined headshot surprisingly does little damage, even a soak result. Granted, the additional damage makes it a little less likely, but it can still happen. In my interpretive system, stuff like this never happens, except for helmeted characters occasionally...
(2) A system like this begs for hit location to become a requirement in the game because of armor that protects specific parts of the body, like helmets which should protect against headshots. Using hit location requires more complex armor rules that I don't want in my game – I prefer armor providing 'averaged out' protection to overall damage resistance, and then my interpretive results consider armor-body location.
(3) In my game I don't want to see players get really good at blasters just to declare headshots all the time to do more damage. The films do not show the heroes good at shooting blasters having a disproportional amount of headshots, and the game turning into that would affect my disbelief suspension. And players always trying to do headshots seems borderline DarkSidey. Headshots do certainly happen in my game, but they are the result of very good rolls, not player intention. Allowing very high to-hit rolls to provide a bonus to damage helps spectacular successes to happen without players always tying to shoot heads. And torso shots can also believably be "I" results (Incapacitated or worse).

YMMV

Quote:
Hamstring: Shoot the target in their legs. On a successful hit, in addition to normal Damage, apply one Lost Move.

I noticed that in RAW, incapacitated characters who are returned to consciousness have their max speed reduced to half their Cautious rate, but there is no reduction in movement for lesser wounds. I instituted that instead of no actions, incapacitated characters can perform actions at -3D like in D6 Space. I think maximum speed reductions due to wounds should also be incremental, so in my character damage/wound system I introduced that singly wounded characters also have a reduction of one speed level, thus have a max of High Speed – I figure that even a shoulder injury may make it too painful to run All-Out speed. Doubly wounded characters have a max of Cruising speed, and conscious incapacitated characters have a max of Cautious speed (an upgrade from the half-Cautious of RAW). The penalties of wound status are at least partially from pain and pain can limit movement, so I don't see it that it has to be leg injuries that limit movement. But I do tend to have a lot of wounded results be upper body wounds, with second wounds that result in a doubly wounded to be leg wounds.

Quote:
Disarm: Shoot the target in the arm. On a successful hit, anything held in that hand is knocked out of the target's grasp, in addition to normal Damage.

I do allow 'called shots' to shoot blasters out of the hands of characters, or helmets off the heads, etc. But in that case the character making the shot is trying to shoot the object not the character. The reduction in skill dice (or increase in difficulty, whichever) is for the added difficulty of the special effect they are going for, but the trade-off is that if unsuccessful the shot misses the character and does no damage at all. If a blaster is destroyed in someone's hand, that could possibly damage the character holding it.

I should also state that I may occasionally interpret the results on NPCs to have some additional effect beyond the normal for the wound status effects, if it serves the story or is otherwise entertaining for the group. This is GM fiat and not based on my game system, and I would never do that to a PC (unwillingly of the player).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Personally, I like specific damage outcomes to remain in the realm of interpreting the results, so that more severe wound statuses are described as head wounds and vital organ torso wounds. So when a hit is first rolled, I don't describe the specific outcome of it until after the damage is rolled...

Yeah, I can see your point. I came up with headshot on the fly late last night, and it's not really the sort of specific effect the others provide.

Quote:
I noticed that in RAW, incapacitated characters who are returned to consciousness have their max speed reduced to half their Cautious rate, but there is no reduction in movement for lesser wounds.

Technically, the reduction in movement would be the result of the Wound penalty being applied to any Running skill rolls. The character would still be able to move relatively normally at slower speeds over Easy/Very Easy terrain, but the wound would come into play as the movement required got more challenging.

Maybe instead of a Lost Move, the Hamstring effect could reduce the character's Base Move by 50%. That's sort of a halfway point between no Move penalty and the 1/2 Cautious penalty from Incapacitated (Revived)

Quote:
I do allow 'called shots' to shoot blasters out of the hands of characters, or helmets off the heads, etc. But in that case the character making the shot is trying to shoot the object not the character. The reduction in skill dice (or increase in difficulty, whichever) is for the added difficulty of the special effect they are going for, but the trade-off is that if unsuccessful the shot misses the character and does no damage at all. If a blaster is destroyed in someone's hand, that could possibly damage the character holding it.

For the purposes of this rule, I'd consider shooting the object (as opposed to the hand that's holding it) an additional step down in Scale, so the penalty would be -4D, depending on the object. The 2D difference could be pretty meaningful depending on the character. If their Blaster skill is mid-level, they might be reasonably expected to hit the limb holding the object, but less so in shooting the object itself.

As far as possibly damaging the character when hitting the object, I'd suggest that a successful hit on the object applies 1 Stun to the character due to the shock/pain.

This brings up an interesting question. When a character is Wounded, they fall to the ground and can't take any further actions that round. So what happens to anything they're holding? Are they automatically Disarmed, and have to spend an action the next round picking up whatever they dropped?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
I noticed that in RAW, incapacitated characters who are returned to consciousness have their max speed reduced to half their Cautious rate, but there is no reduction in movement for lesser wounds.

Technically, the reduction in movement would be the result of the Wound penalty being applied to any Running skill rolls...

The wound penalty does apply to movement rolls when they are necessary (and yes, terrain and speed are factors in when they are necessary). But the rule I added just lowers the max speed that is able to be chosen. Wound status now removes speed options, but any rolls are penalized normally as in RAW.

Quote:
For the purposes of this rule, I'd consider shooting the object (as opposed to the hand that's holding it) an additional step down in Scale, so the penalty would be -4D, depending on the object.

I agree that the size of the item should determine the penalty.

Quote:
As far as possibly damaging the character when hitting the object, I'd suggest that a successful hit on the object applies 1 Stun to the character due to the shock/pain.

Good suggestion.

Quote:
This brings up an interesting question. When a character is Wounded, they fall to the ground and can't take any further actions that round. So what happens to anything they're holding? Are they automatically Disarmed, and have to spend an action the next round picking up whatever they dropped?

Hmm. RAW doesn't say anything in the wound status descriptions about dropping weapons or handheld item when wounded, but in the Roll Actions example of play on p.78, the GM described that a wounded goon "falls to the ground and drops his pistol."

Getting up off the ground from being prone should be MAPped as an action. I would just include picking up a dropped weapons as part of that action, so I wouldn't normally charge an additional MAP.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
The wound penalty does apply to movement rolls when they are necessary (and yes, terrain and speed are factors in when they are necessary). But the rule I added just lowers the max speed that is able to be chosen. Wound status now removes speed options, but any rolls are penalized normally as in RAW.

It could do both; apply the Wound Penalty to Running/Agility, and apply a Lost Move. Then do a 50% reduction in Base Move on a targeted Leg attack. Then take away the other 50% on a targeted attack against the other leg.


Quote:
RAW doesn't say anything in the wound status descriptions about dropping weapons or handheld item when wounded, but in the Roll Actions example of play on p.78, the GM described that a wounded goon "falls to the ground and drops his pistol."

Getting up off the ground from being prone should be MAPped as an action. I would just include picking up a dropped weapons as part of that action, so I wouldn't normally charge an additional MAP.

On the flipside, real world soldiers use weapon retention harnesses or bungees to keep their weapon close at hand even if they lose their grip on it. Depending on how "real world" a scenario you're looking for, having it take a No-Roll Action to locate and recover a dropped weapon or other item would be an appropriate in-game reason for such a device.

[somewhere, Naaman senses a disturbance in the Force] Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
RAW doesn't say anything in the wound status descriptions about dropping weapons or handheld item when wounded, but in the Roll Actions example of play on p.78, the GM described that a wounded goon "falls to the ground and drops his pistol."

Getting up off the ground from being prone should be MAPped as an action. I would just include picking up a dropped weapons as part of that action, so I wouldn't normally charge an additional MAP.

On the flipside, real world soldiers use weapon retention harnesses or bungees to keep their weapon close at hand even if they lose their grip on it. Depending on how "real world" a scenario you're looking for, having it take a No-Roll Action to locate and recover a dropped weapon or other item would be an appropriate in-game reason for such a device.

[somewhere, Naaman senses a disturbance in the Force] Laughing

I know what you are referring to and those seem quite practical for the battle field, but I haven't seen those for smaller firearms, and I also can't recall seeing those used in Star Wars.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I know what you are referring to and those seem quite practical for the battle field, but I haven't seen those for smaller firearms

They exist; they're called "pistol retention lanyards." Hopefully, Naaman can chime in and educate us on the pros/cons.

Quote:
and I also can't recall seeing those used in Star Wars.

There is that. Still, I suppose it depends on how "real" you want your SWU to be.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:15 pm    Post subject: Ionization Reply with quote

Tangent to revising stats after I brought up speed code

Continuing from the above discussion in the appropriate thread...

CRMcNeill wrote:
REVISED STARSHIP DAMAGE CHART (use chart from rulebook, page 128, except as noted):
...
Ionization. The ship's controls are temporarily overwhelmed by power surges. All actions involving ship systems suffer a -1D penalty; this affects Maneuverability, Weapons, Sensors, Shields, Astrogation, and even Hull (Particle Shields, up to a maximum of -2D). All penalties are cumulative (stack with other Ionization penalties) and temporary (roll off at a rate of 1D per round). Any ship system reduced to 0D by penalties can not be used until enough penalty dice roll off. In particular:
    0D Maneuverability = Ship must maintain same heading and speed, in addition to any Lost Moves.

    0D Fire Control = Weapon may not be fired.
In addition, each -1D Ionization penalty inflicts 1 Lost Move (See below for Lost Moves).
...
IONIZATION DAMAGE
Ionization damage can have a cumulative effect that completely overwhelms a ship's systems, causing permanent damage that must be repaired before the ship can be used. Using the following chart for cumulative Ionization damage:
    0-4 = 1D Ionization
    5-8 = 2D Ionization
    9-12 = 3D Ionization
    13-16 = 4D Ionization
    17+ = Controls Dead (See Below)
If in a single round, Ionization damage exceeds 4D, it causes permanent damage to the target ship's systems. For example, if a ship suffering a -2D Ionization penalty is hit by an ion cannon for 3D of Ionization Damage, totalling 5D Ionization, the ship suffers the Controls Dead result, and is dead in space, adrift, with all drives, maneuvering and other ship systems disabled. For degree of damage, use the following chart:
    17-20 (5D Ionization) = Controls Dead (Lightly Damaged)
    21-24 (6D Ionization) = Controls Dead (Heavily Damaged)
    25-28 (7D Ionization) = Controls Dead (Severely Damaged)
    29+ (8D Ionization) = Controls Dead (Destroyed)
Repair Difficulties and Times are as listed under the appropriate Repair skill.

Once a ship has been disabled by a Controls Dead result, it can no longer suffer additional Ionization results until it is repaired. This is due to blown circuit breakers and loss of power protecting ship's systems from additional power surges.
CRMcNeill wrote:
My theory there (which, again, is based more on ease of gameplay than any particular scientific reasoning) is that the technology behind artificial gravity and inertial dampening is resistant to ionization effects, mostly as a result of the energy fields generated incidentally by the effects themselves. This allows the ship to maintain artificial gravity even in the event of a Controls Dead result, and also to drift to a halt in the event of a Lost Move.

You did have lost speed levels from ionization in your damage system (I think the Aug 28th edit was adding your location targeting rules). I have highlighted a confusing part relevant to our discussion yesterday in blue text above. It seems you may need to clarify your chart rules.

Maintaining the same speed and heading at the threshold of maneuverability being reduced to 0D is straight out of RAW, as I was saying when you brought up the lost moves. How is it possible for the ship to maintain the same speed while also losing speed levels at the same time? If ionization is cumulative at any given time, then new ionization will reduce speed further. Or is it that the maintaining the same speed when maneuverability is reduced to 0D overrides the lost moves?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Ionization Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
You did have lost speed levels from ionization in your damage system (I think the Aug 28th edit was adding your location targeting rules). I have highlighted a confusing part relevant to our discussion yesterday in blue text above. It seems you may need to clarify your chart rules.

Maintaining the same speed and heading at the threshold of maneuverability being reduced to 0D is straight out of RAW, as I was saying when you brought up the lost moves. How is it possible for the ship to maintain the same speed while also losing speed levels at the same time? If ionization is cumulative at any given time, then new ionization will reduce speed further. Or is it that the maintaining the same speed when maneuverability is reduced to 0D overrides the lost moves?

That was an editing error. It's an obvious conflict. Obviously, if ionization is inflicting Lost Moves, then the ship's Speed would drop as indicated by the Lost Moves, not stay constant.

It would make sense to have the Lost Moves take effect in subsequent rounds. For instance, if a ship traveling at All-Out takes 2D Ionization, it would slow to Full in the following round, then Cruising in the round after that.
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