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Power Routing (for freighters)
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
What if running auxiliary power to the hyperdrive caused the entire unit to need to be replaced? Or at least enough repairs to repair a heavily damaged one? This way, you can push your hyperdrive, but your ship's engineer is going to be cursing the day you were born while he's having to rebuild or replace the entire unit.

I'd prefer to have that as more of an increased chance of it happening the longer you run with it...
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
That's a pretty good analogy and you expressed what I hadn't yet found a way to articulate, so thanks!

Always glad to be of service.

Quote:
Last night I went through the all the ships in the RP Starship Stats document to find that the slowest backup hyperdrive multiplier was x25. I started to make a chart with inverted Hyperdrive multipliers as decimal values to try to visually see the relationship between them to make a sensible rule but I just got sleepy and went to bed.

I haven't really gotten into Backup Hyperdrives beyond reimagining them as in-system transit hyperdrives...

Quote:
I don't think Aux Power should be able to run for the length of a hyperspace journey, so I'm thinking any boost from it should be a very small one, and that aux power would have to be routed there before the jump so the navicomputer can completely take the initial boost into effect. Multipliers shifts would be huge differences at the speeds most ships travel (x2 or x1) so that is just out of the question for me. But thanks for giving me another effect to consider for the rule.

I can see it being run for the full length of some short jumps, using a system similar to the Long Distance Movement rules for real space. As in:
    For every hour of a trip through hyperspace, roll the ship's Hull dice. The first hour is Very Easy, the second hour Easy, and so on an so forth. If the drive takes Controls Ionized Damage, it overheats and cuts out, dropping the ship into real space. It doesn't need repairs, but does need 2D minutes to dissipate waste heat and reset itself. Any result of Lightly Damaged or above, the Hyperdrive is damaged at that level, and requires an appropriate Repair roll.


Quote:
That's what I put down. I'm still not sure, but thanks for the feedback.

Any time. Very Happy
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Power Routing for Space Transports

I updated the rule to account for All-Out movement and Full Reaction evasions using Auxiliary Power. Power can be routed separately to the applicable systems to make those pilot actions possible, or the single pilot rolls for those actions can include the power routing attempt. Since auxiliary power routing is Easy but not automatic, it took a lot of work today to address the failure situations and slightly changed Full Reaction evasions since there is now a small chance they can't occur if the auxiliary power routing fails. And I had to address All-Out or Full Reaction evasions interrupting a multi-round power reroute is in progress.

I also lowered the total weight of the Aux Power Generator and its cable system to 1 ton, and made a few other edits to the text for clarification. For simplicity's sake and to not let speed get too outrageous, I decided to not allow a system transfer to boost the Space stat +2 on top of a ship is moving All-Out.

I didn't bother adding any hard rules for sensor attempts to ascertain which systems are being boosted on other ships or added chances of being discovered because stuff like that already seems to be a part of the sensors skill if a GM sees fit for that and the sensors roll is high enough.

Raven Redstar wrote:
What if running auxiliary power to the hyperdrive caused the entire unit to need to be replaced? Or at least enough repairs to repair a heavily damaged one? This way, you can push your hyperdrive, but your ship's engineer is going to be cursing the day you were born while he's having to rebuild or replace the entire unit.

The R&E guideline for moving at All-Out speed for too long has a chance of bad stuff to start happening at the 10 minute mark, not an hour. This house rule adding the premise that All-Out speed uses Aux Power provides a RAW guideline for running a system with extra power for too long. In the game, all interstellar hyperspace journeys are going to be more than 10 minutes long, so it still doesn't make sense for me to allow power to be boost the hyperdrive for the length of interstellar trips.

While I still maintain that planet to moon or even gas giant moon to moon travel would be fairly common in the galaxy and thus spaceships without hyperdrive would exist in Star Wars, I have come around to the idea of micro-jumps being common for same-system interplanetary journeys because interplanetary voyages at sublight would still take a long time. (But longer sublight trips could still exist in some systems - Spaceships without hyperdrives are undoubted cheaper.) However, normal hyperspace travel is thousands of times the speed of light, so even with a really slow backup hyperdrive like x25, same-system jumps would still be near-instantaneous so there isn't any way extra power to the hyperdrive could make the micro-jumps any faster.

It would make some sense to me with the All-Out/Full Reaction Aux Power premise changes that the jump to lightspeed in all hyperspace jumps (normal or micro) also automatically uses Aux Power. At the moment you jump to lightspeed you no longer need Aux Power for whatever it was doing up until that point anyway. If so, I guess I could add an added system power routing requirement to all hyperspace jumps made when the ship's Aux Power Generator is missing, damaged or otherwise non-functional.

On the other hand, jumping to hyperspace would be a more routine action than going All-Out and doing Full Reaction evasions, so all jumps to lightspeed doesn't seem to be the realm of something called Auxiliary Power. Maybe Aux Power should be default for all micro-jumps for accuracy (not overshooting the targeted exit), and there should be a rule that micro-jumps become more difficult without an Aux Power Generator. I'll probably go with that, because it is probably the case that over 50% of all star systems would only have one planet to go to -Thus micro-jumps would only be applicable in less than 50% of all systems.
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Argentsaber
Lieutenant Commander
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, I have been using the jury-rig rules to account for the "rerouting power" thing, with shields skill replacing the repair skill. This already limits the benefit to a maximum of 3 dice, and makes the "needed modification" come down to shutting down another system (ships with "auxiliary power" have it listed as such, and treat it as a "free" system to shut down). It has always worked well enough for me, though admittedly I play a modified version of first edition.

PS: Sorry to chime in so late, been learning new software for work.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
The R&E guideline for moving at All-Out speed for too long has a chance of bad stuff to start happening at the 10 minute mark, not an hour. This house rule adding the premise that All-Out speed uses Aux Power provides a RAW guideline for running a system with extra power for too long. In the game, all interstellar hyperspace journeys are going to be more than 10 minutes long, so it still doesn't make sense for me to allow power to be boost the hyperdrive for the length of interstellar trips.

There is a step you’re skipping, though. Under Long Distance Movement, you rolled once per hour instead of every ten minutes. If standard jump times and hyperdrive multipliers are Cruising speed, where a ship can travel at speed until it runs out of fuel, then applying Aux Power to the Hyperdrive would be more like Full Speed, not All-Out.

It’s not an exact match to the Movement rules, but rolling once per hour is far more reasonable than every 10 minutes.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you said "Full Speed", did you mean High Speed? There is no "Full" Speed. It's Cautious, Cruising, High, and All-Out.

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
The R&E guideline for moving at All-Out speed for too long has a chance of bad stuff to start happening at the 10 minute mark, not an hour. This house rule adding the premise that All-Out speed uses Aux Power provides a RAW guideline for running a system with extra power for too long. In the game, all interstellar hyperspace journeys are going to be more than 10 minutes long, so it still doesn't make sense for me to allow power to be boost the hyperdrive for the length of interstellar trips.

There is a step you’re skipping, though. Under Long Distance Movement, you rolled once per hour instead of every ten minutes. If standard jump times and hyperdrive multipliers are Cruising speed, where a ship can travel at speed until it runs out of fuel, then applying Aux Power to the Hyperdrive would be more like Full Speed, not All-Out.

It’s not an exact match to the Movement rules, but rolling once per hour is far more reasonable than every 10 minutes.

You can have it work however you want in your game rules, but no I am not missing a step. The Long Distance Movement section of R&E states you roll every hour for High Speed. In my rule I just updated, based on your suggestion, All-Out requires Aux Power by default. All-Out continuously requires sequentially increasing difficulty hull rolls every 10 minutes. Aux Power is not automatically required for High Speed.

Now if you choose to use Aux Power for the +2 bonus to Space and move High Speed for 10 minutes, that is still using Aux Power for 10 minutes. But if you travel High Speed without using Aux Power at all, then you roll hull every hour.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I’m talking about High Speed. To be clear, I’m talking about hyper drives, not real space. An increase of the Hyperdrive Multiplier by applying Aux Power would be the equivalent of stepping up from Cruise to High in real space, not two steps up from Cruise to All-Out.
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Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Boosts Power To Hyperdrive* "I've gone to PLAID!"

*R2 Unit Beeps Annoyingly* "Yes, I realize I just killed half the lifetime on our hyperdrive by doing this jump, but how else do I keep pace with The Millenium Falcon?"
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray wrote:
*Boosts Power To Hyperdrive* "I've gone to PLAID!"

LOL. Maybe "Going to Plaid" is what happens when astrogators try to add aux power to hyperdrive. And then when they come out of hyperspace they are in the Spaceballs universe. Ha.

Seriously, I'm half-tempted to add "Going to Plaid" to a hyperdrive mishap.

CRMcNeill wrote:
Yes, I’m talking about High Speed. To be clear, I’m talking about hyper drives, not real space. An increase of the Hyperdrive Multiplier by applying Aux Power would be the equivalent of stepping up from Cruise to High in real space, not two steps up from Cruise to All-Out.

I understand you are talking about hyperspace but I don't agree for my game and my rule. I am not skipping over anything for my rule.

The "equivalence" you are referring to is not relevant to me. I am thinking of it as Aux Power off or Aux Power on. The premise change you suggested (and that I ran with) was that going All-Out as in RAW already required the Aux Power Generator. Not High Speed. Only All-Out. RAW says that when going All-Out, make an increasing difficult hull roll every ten minutes. Since now the Aux Generator is required to be on for All-Out, that gives a RAW based-ruling for having the Aux Power generator be used for any purpose for 10 minutes.

The RAW rule for continuous High Speed hull rolls is every hour. In my rules, it is still possible to go High Speed without using the Aux Power Generator - That works as in RAW. If you go High Speed with an Aux Power +2 Space boost, then with my rules you would have the Aux Power roll every 10 minutes.

If you want High Speed to also require Aux Power by default, I would not agree with that. Before you suggested the All-Out/Aux Power thing, I was already struggling with All-Out being too fast and thinking of making it x3 instead of x4. You helped me resolve my issue with it, so I can keep the mathematical elegance of x1/2, x1, x2, and x4. I never had any issues with High Speed.

I understand how you want to optionally apply Aux Power to help interstellar hyperspace travel and I understand the correlation you are making for your suggested rule, but I just do not agree with adding aux power to interstellar hyperdrive journeys because they are all a minimum of one hour. It's ok we disagree. Please continue to share how you would do it.


However, most in-system micro-jumps would be near-instantaneous. Do we have any fan rules for in-system micro-jumps I can look at?
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Ray
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My group had a minor hyperdrive mishap happen to them. What was supposed to take three days in Hyperspace ended up taking a month because they accidentally used the back-up hyperdrive.

The major problem with this is, one, they weren't on a ship designed for long-distance flights like that, and two, the Failed Jedi only had half a bottle of scotch left.

Trying to get a lightsaber from a hallucinating Jedi when he sees snakes all around him is... Interesting, to say the least.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I understand how you want to optionally apply Aux Power to help interstellar hyperspace travel and I understand the correlation you are making for your suggested rule, but I just do not agree with adding aux power to interstellar hyperdrive journeys because they are all a minimum of one hour. It's ok we disagree. Please continue to share how you would do it.

It's been a busy week, and I'm quite tired, so I'm not sure if I'm just misunderstanding your objection or if we're talking past each other. I don't see why all hyperspace jumps being longer than an hour would invalidate a rule where the ship would only take a Damage roll once per hour (not once every 10 minutes). It's not supposed to be the equivalent of All-Out, just a step up in hyperdrive speed at the cost of a Damage roll every hour. This would allow for Aux Power to be used to boost shorter jumps, but the characters would have to use it sparingly.


Quote:
However, most in-system micro-jumps would be near-instantaneous. Do we have any fan rules for in-system micro-jumps I can look at?

None that I'm aware of. I've been thinking about it off and on, but haven't made any real progress.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
I understand how you want to optionally apply Aux Power to help interstellar hyperspace travel and I understand the correlation you are making for your suggested rule, but I just do not agree with adding aux power to interstellar hyperdrive journeys because they are all a minimum of one hour. It's ok we disagree. Please continue to share how you would do it.

It's been a busy week, and I'm quite tired, so I'm not sure if I'm just misunderstanding your objection or if we're talking past each other. I don't see why all hyperspace jumps being longer than an hour would invalidate a rule where the ship would only take a Damage roll once per hour (not once every 10 minutes). It's not supposed to be the equivalent of All-Out, just a step up in hyperdrive speed at the cost of a Damage roll every hour. This would allow for Aux Power to be used to boost shorter jumps, but the characters would have to use it sparingly.

I don't think you're talking past me. I understand what you are saying.

CRM: If using an Aux Power house rule, All-Out and Full Reaction evasion should only be possible with Aux Power.
Whill: Agreed.

CRM: I think Aux Power should also be able to boost hyperspace journeys.
Whill: I think Aux Power could possibly boost micro-jumps, but nothing more than that.

It's ok that we disagree on using Aux Power for lightspeed. I am not invalidating anyone else's rules. I don't do that. As far as you not understanding my objection to the idea for my own rule, well I tried. Ultimately it isn't really that important you understand because everyone (you and all the lurkers reading this thread) can decide for themselves what can and can't have Aux Power. But I appreciate you trying to understand, and I am sorry I failed so far to explain it.

My issue is simply that I want the same rule to apply for all uses of Aux Power. In my original rule, before you brought up All-Out, I only stated that a GM could rule that continuously using Aux Power too long could be damaging at their discretion. No actual timeframe was in my rule. After adopting the premise of All-Out only being possible with Aux Power, I suddenly had a RAW guideline of increasingly difficult rolls ever 10 minutes to avoid damage. I want it to be the same rule for all uses of Aux Power. Even if the Aux Power is rerouted to different systems during a 10 minute or longer period, the fact that Aux Power is continuously on for that long at all should require the chance of it damaging a system or of it being damaged itself. No matter what system. You are making equivalences between sublight speeds and hyperdrive speeds, but I want the equivalence to be the same exact time increments for all continuous uses of Aux Power.

In my rule, Aux Power is not required by default to travel High Speed, so the Long Distance rule for high speed is inapplicable to any use of Aux Power. The hourly rolls are just from traveling a High Speed for an hour or more, which is a strain on the sublight engines but has nothing to do with Aux Power if it wasn't used to boost Space+2. I want the same 'continuous use' rule for all uses of Aux Power, which I made increasing difficult rolls every 10 minutes. Having one use of continuous Aux Power where the hull rolls are made less often is inconsistent and doesn't make sense to me for my rule.

If I did allow Aux Power for interstellar hyperspace journeys, a journey of only one hour would have 6 increasingly difficult rolls to make: Very Easy, Easy, Moderate, Difficult, Very Difficult, and Heroic. And for all but the last roll, if the roll is failed by 1-10 then the ship would have to drop from hyperspace and rest for a while before they resume lightspeed mid-journey with new astrogation roll from interstellar space. If the roll is failed by more than 10 then the ship suffers a mechanical failure that requires a repair. Odds are very much against any ship's Hull code making all of those rolls, and since most hyperspace journeys are more than an hour, every 10 minutes would be an increasing Heroic+ difficulties. Even really high hull code ships would need to hit wild die explosions on every roll after a certain point. And most journeys take more than an hour.

Before, and still now, Aux Power is not meant to be used continuously. The 10 minute reflects that. Allowing aux power to augment interstellar hyperspace journeys would mean the players will have an option to do something they really shouldn't be trying because it would be almost impossible for the ship's hull to not fail a roll. It's easier to just say no interstellar hyperspace journeys can have aux power.


CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
However, most in-system micro-jumps would be near-instantaneous. Do we have any fan rules for in-system micro-jumps I can look at?

None that I'm aware of. I've been thinking about it off and on, but haven't made any real progress.

Like always, I'm very interested in seeing what you come up with. Please start a new thread for micro-jumps that when you do have anything to put down.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Boosting Power Output
Red-lining a ship’s power plant to generate more energy is never a good idea, but some pilots need the extra boost to survive desperate situations. A technician working in the engineering spaces must undertake this complicated procedure; captains of single-pilot craft or ships without ready access to power sources cannot try boosting the power output. Technicians must make a flight systems repair roll to tap into emergency battery relays, reconfigure power flow parameters, ignite burst capacitors, and overload the power plant, increasing the number of energy units available...


D6 Space Ships has a version of power control that temporarily boosts power to ship systems. This seems to have informed my view so maybe I did read this a long time ago, and it stuck in the back of my mind while I consciously forgot about it. It uses a Technical skill in D6 Space, the flying vehicles/ships repair skill. I don't feel any need to change my power rules but there is some good technobabble for it here.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just stumbled across something potentially relevant...

The Vangaard Pathfinder from GG8 has special shielding that converts hits into a damage boost for the ship's guns. It's an awfully specific feature, and isn't featured on any other WEG stat that I'm aware of, but it does present some interesting possibilities for this topic. Specifically, what if any energy absorbed by the ship's shields could be directed into the Power Routing network and used to provide additional auxiliary power dice? The Pathfinder's stats limit it to a hard cap of three hits before the shield generator overloads, but it would be another fun tool in the belt of whichever character is controlling the Shield / Power systems if they could absorb more power based on how well they rolled Shields.

And of course the systems would still be capped at 1D max auxiliary power before they start to risk taking damage, but this would allow the ship to temporarily boost multiple systems at once.

I've been thinking for a while about crossing over another piece of WH40K tech called a Conversion Field that turns the energy of an attack into photon energy (basically a huge flash of light), but the name (not to mention the effect of converting one form of energy into another) works just as well here.

Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Just stumbled across something potentially relevant...

The Vangaard Pathfinder from GG8 has special shielding that converts hits into a damage boost for the ship's guns. It's an awfully specific feature, and isn't featured on any other WEG stat that I'm aware of, but it does present some interesting possibilities for this topic. Specifically, what if any energy absorbed by the ship's shields could be directed into the Power Routing network and used to provide additional auxiliary power dice? The Pathfinder's stats limit it to a hard cap of three hits before the shield generator overloads, but it would be another fun tool in the belt of whichever character is controlling the Shield / Power systems if they could absorb more power based on how well they rolled Shields.
...
Thoughts?

Interesting concept. I like that it only gives a temporary +1 bonus to your weapon's damage for each hit it absorbs.

But the premise of the auxiliary generator is that it is standard on all ships. I do not see anything like this specialized shields/weapon system as standard. Drawing power from enemy firepower absorbed by the shields and channeling it into the ship's own weapons for a boost in weapon damage seems to me like a rare and specialized add-on, not a standard ability that all ships have. It is statted out that way, with a built-in steep trade-off that after absorbing only three hits, the shields overload and shut down for 10 rounds.

And to me, gaining a temporary bonus of up to +3 to weapon damage does not really seem worth the trade-off of losing all 3D in shields.

Quote:
And of course the systems would still be capped at 1D max auxiliary power before they start to risk taking damage, but this would allow the ship to temporarily boost multiple systems at once.

In my power routing system, aux power is only 1D. Adding more than 1D to a system would require power control, which includes routing power from other systems in addition to aux power, and that is where the risk of power surges and eventually overload damage comes in. And my system already includes multiple systems being boosted at once.
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