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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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There's also my (A) Marksman skill, so a skilled Sensor Operator / Gunner team could conceivably hit targets beyond "normal" range for both sensors and weapons.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Zarn
Force Spirit
Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 698
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Pel, you're right.
Last edited by Zarn on Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pel
Line Captain
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 983
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Zarn wrote: | | Thermoclines would probably play merry heck with sensors at any rate. |
Only if your sensors are based on sonar. Light attentuation based on temperature is negligible. The rest of your post is sound (pun intended)  .
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10293
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | ...If, on the other hand, you're more interested in preserving the World War II-era combat feel, you could always pare down the sensor ranges to 1 SU = 100 meters. Even an A-Wing moving at All-Out would still require several rounds to move from extreme sensor range to close enough to attack. |
Despite it seeming lower tech than modern aircraft, I am leaning toward this option for sensors in atmospheres. Space weapon ranges and sensors are in the same units, Space Units. Targeting computers (fire control) use an aspect of sensor tech. Space weapon atmosphere ranges use the formula of 1 SU = 100m. It makes sense to me that sensors in atmospheres would follow the same pattern as space weapons in atmospheres.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Quote: | | I was asking if you still feel that aquatic weapon range should equal atmospheric range, or if it should be reduced further? |
Well, if we're going by the baseline in Battle for the Golden Sun, then no. Blasters underwater only have increased Difficulty to hit, not a reduction in absolute range. |
I've ran Battle for the Golden Sun several times. I think that rule is fine for character-scale weapons, but space weapon atmospheric ranges just seem way too big underwater. So I'm thinking of splitting the difference. If the weapon was specifically designed to work underwater (like the pulse laser), give it the atmosphere ranges. If it wasn't, then cut that in half.
As far as aquatic spaceship sensors underwater, those should probably be half of the atmosphere sensor ranges too. The search range is still going to be way bigger than the max long range of a weapon designed to be used underwater.
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Dredwulf60
Line Captain
Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Underwater Energy Weapons |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: |
So, I started wondering if there would be any sorts of high-tech weaponry that would actually be more effective underwater. Sonic weapons certainly would, but would likely prove difficult to focus narrowly enough for point attacks. could be weaponized to inflict penetrating damage on a target.
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Not necessarily...
Lasers are light waves that are focused into a narrow beam.
Sound is made up of waves...and they too can be focused into narrow beams. If the sound was destructive enough, it could make for cool Star Wars underwater weapons.
https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/displays/article/21763155/focus-sound-just-like-a-laser-beam |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Despite it seeming lower tech than modern aircraft, I am leaning toward this option for sensors in atmospheres. |
Personally, I'm hesitant to take this route if only because it's a strong possibility for Nape of the Earth / Low Level Flight rules, as in, if a ship flies low enough, any enemy trying to detect it reverts to Ground Range, which allows the ship to get much closer before being detected. Of course, to do so means the ship's own sensors are reduced to Ground Range to detect surface targets, as well as increased Terrain Difficulty...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10293
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | Despite it seeming lower tech than modern aircraft, I am leaning toward this option for sensors in atmospheres. Space weapon ranges and sensors are in the same units, Space Units. Targeting computers (fire control) use an aspect of sensor tech. Space weapon atmosphere ranges use the formula of 1 SU = 100m. It makes sense to me that sensors in atmospheres would follow the same pattern as space weapons in atmospheres. |
Personally, I'm hesitant to take this route if only because it's a strong possibility for Nape of the Earth / Low Level Flight rules, as in, if a ship flies low enough, any enemy trying to detect it reverts to Ground Range, which allows the ship to get much closer before being detected. Of course, to do so means the ship's own sensors are reduced to Ground Range to detect surface targets, as well as increased Terrain Difficulty... |
A range reduction makes sense for low level flight, but that is not a convincing reason to have atmosphere sensors be ten times the atmosphere weapon ranges. There is always room to go down. As the rest of my last post indicated, I was thinking of making underwater sensor ranges half atmospheric ranges, so ground/low level flight ranges could also be half, with atmosphere weapons and sensors ranges being the same reduction from space ranges.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10293
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Quote: | | I was asking if you still feel that aquatic weapon range should equal atmospheric range, or if it should be reduced further? |
Well, if we're going by the baseline in Battle for the Golden Sun, then no. Blasters underwater only have increased Difficulty to hit, not a reduction in absolute range. |
I thought I would give a more formalized reply to this. I have instituted a third range level for non-orbital space weapons. RAW has space and atmosphere, and I have added subatmospheric which is half the atmospheric range. Subatmospheric covers nap-of-the-earth, ground, and subaquatic.
This completely correlates with the RAW premise in the Battle for the Golden Sun module. Character-scale weapons do not have a reduction in range underwater, but personal weapons are already on the "ground" level which is the same level as subaquatic in my system. Atmospheric weapon ranges on airspeeders and spaceships are halved from the atmospheric level when below the atmospheric level. So for range, I do not draw the line between above and below water. The dividing line is further up, right above low level flight.
My atmospheric vehicle and spaceship stats have atmospheric sensors. For aquatic spaceships I also include the subatmospheric sensor and weapon ranges for convenience. For non-aquatic ships in subatmospheric situations, it is easy to just halve the atmospheric ranges in-play. I gave my submarine sensor stats but of course it only has subatmospheric stats.
Blaster weapons having reduced damage and increased difficulty to use is still the difference between being in air and in water.
And it is logical to reduce sensor ranges exactly at the same point that weapons ranges are. So atmospheric sensor ranges of spaceships follow the same formula that space to atmosphere weapons to, and subatmospheric sensor ranges are likewise half of atmosphere ranges. So low level flight is a way to move or stay out of ground level sensor ranges faster, or sneak up on ground targets. (Low level flight may also make a craft harder to detect from above as well, but that is a different mechanism than this rule for weapon/sensor range conversions.)
As far as atmospheric sensor ranges seeming less than modern real world ranges, a simple way for a GM to address that is to not rule that the search range is the end of the range, and instead allow for sensor rolls beyond that with added difficulty. It's uniform and consistent for the weapon and sensor stats to stay proportional to each other.
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