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D6 Space Wars?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:10 am    Post subject: D6 Space Wars? Reply with quote

Fall all intents and purposes, D6 Space is the 3rd edition of this game, with the Lucasfilm IP stripped. D6 Adventure and D6 Fantasy are genre specific conversions of D6 Space. There is a little known predecessor to D6 Space known as D6 Space Opera, which was a free PDF released by WEG. It included rules for converting the Shatterzone RPG to the D6 Space Opera system.

I'm wondering if it would be prudent to create an Open D6 document that is the R&E version of the D6 system completely scrubbed of all Lucasfilm IP.

D6 Space Wars, anyone? Thoughts?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Void Wars, perhaps? It is in space, after all, and since it will be devoid of any Lucasfilm references, the allusion is somewhat apropos.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Void wars sounds interesting..
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Void Wars, perhaps? It is in space, after all, and since it will be devoid of any Lucasfilm references, the allusion is somewhat apropos.

I do like that, but I also like D6 Space Wars because it better refers to its place in the evolution of R&E to D6 Space Opera to D6 Space. Having it start with "D6 Space..." immediately evokes 'Open D6 with no IP'. Then the "...Wars" at the end differentiates it from D6 Space Opera and D6 Space while referring to this particular editions's source, Star Wars.

When I asked for thoughts I wasn't thinking about what it should be named. I was thinking, Is this a worthy project? Does anyone want to contribute to the transcription process to help create this document?
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
When I asked for thoughts I wasn't thinking about what it should be named. I was thinking, Is this a worthy project? Does anyone want to contribute to the transcription process to help create this document?


What differentiates this from the d6 Space PDF, would be my question.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Whill wrote:
I was thinking, Is this a worthy project? Does anyone want to contribute to the transcription process to help create this document?

What differentiates this from the d6 Space PDF, would be my question.

All the same things that differentiates WEG Star Wars 2eR&E from D6 Space, except for the Star Wars IP. If you compare at R&E and D6 Space, you can see the differences in the two game systems. These things come up in discussions here and there may even be threads devoted to this.

Let me ask this. Is your question a response to my question about is this a worthy project? Are you thinking there may not be enough differences to bother with this endeavor? IMO there is, or I wouldn't have even posted this. Perhaps a little more background about my thought process behind this would help.

The Adventure's Journal group is obsessed with issues being printable so fans can put them on their shelf beside the official issues. The AJ public project on Lulu was closed by Lulu because of it including Disney IP (and Lulu is a for-profit service). They only use original art with permission of the artist, so the only IP would be in text like, "droid," "lightsaber," "x-wing," etc. The editor-in-chief posted a video about "Star Wars" being removed, and I asked for clarification. If I understand his answer correctly, they are only removing "Star Wars" from the name of the publication, so it will just be AJ instead of SWAJ. They aren't scrubbing all IP from the text of the magazine. He didn't mention if he thought that would be enough to get the public AJ back on Lulu or what the strategy to address that would be. The issues still exist as PDFs without them being easily pod. I haven't had any printed.

I can totally see Lulu's point of view. They profit off of print jobs. The fan AJ PDFs are available for free, and no one here sells any fan works we create. But Lulu doesn't want to be guilty of earning profit off of anything that includes Disney IP.

Although not what they are wanting right now, I went ahead and mentioned to Brian the idea I had way back when D6 first went OGL of creating a document that would be what I proposed in this thread, R&E without the Star Wars. (This same process was already used to create the D6 Legend document — It is the DC Universe RPG with all the DC IP removed.) He said he was thinking about the possibility of doing something along the same lines. He said he didn't want to just update it to D6 Space. That is undesirable because they want this publication to be the spiritual successor to the WEG SW AJ.

My personal motivation for 'R&E minus SW' remains the same since the inception of Open D6. "The D6 System" would not even be a thing, and there would no such thing as "Open D6," if it hadn't been for Star Wars D6, and IMHO R&E is the best version of Star Wars and D6. It is the default game system of this website. It is the pinnacle of the D6 system. Of course, I have nothing against D6 Space or Zorro. We may house rule our Star Wars system and incorporate elements from later editions. But out of the published editions, SW R&E was the best selling and most popular overall. I just feel there should be an Open D6 document with the exact game system of SW R&E, right there with all the other documents.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

Let me ask this. Is your question a response to my question about is this a worthy project? Are you thinking there may not be enough differences to bother with this endeavor? IMO there is, or I wouldn't have even posted this. Perhaps a little more background about my thought process behind this would help...


No, my question was more "What is this thing you are talking about?" I felt like I came in on the middle of a conversation. Your explanation covers it, I think.

As I understand it, you're essentially looking at using the OpenD6 license to make, a 2e R&E version of OSRIC? i.e. "We use the license on this existing system to recreate an older system"?

I can see the value in that. We create, say, D6 Following Older Rules Creatively Edition (D6 FORCE), which is a d6 license game that has some "tweaks" to make it R&E, without the IP that makes it Star Wars. We don't have Lightsabers, we have laser swords or plasma swords. We don't have Jedi, we have Space Wizards. We don't have X-Wings and TIE Fighters, we have "space superiority fighters" and "windshield bugs with lasers". Because of the D6 License, we can publish things compatible with R&E, so long as we adequately file off the serial numbers and put some Vaseline on the lens.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't compared that core to my AD&D books (or even heard about that until now), but from what I just read, yeah maybe like that general concept except that I am not recalling any AD&D-specific IP that must be removed. (I'm not saying there isn't.) I did some reading up on Star Wars IP and it is amazing what the long list of things Lucasfilm has trademarked for various media. "The Force" is even trademarked for certain uses. So this endeavor would involve making up some replacement terms for things, but that shouldn't be too hard. The real work in this project would be in the transcription - privately as individuals and offsite, contributors would be transcribing portions of R&E into text form, for it to later be compiled and scrubbed of IP to create a new PDF.

I feel that describing it as 'R&E minus Star Wars IP' seems to be a very direct and concise description, and I find that I am failing to think of another way to say it.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's for the purpose of getting a printable R&E with all the rules in tact, then that makes a lot of sense. It would mean that I could tell a new player, "Here's a legal PDF you can have printed POD."

Would there be an effort to scrub the IP and keep the page numbers roughly similar, or would new formatting take precedence? The former sounds like a lot of layout work.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I haven't compared that core to my AD&D books (or even heard about that until now), but from what I just read, yeah maybe like that general concept except that I am not recalling any AD&D-specific IP that must be removed. (I'm not saying there isn't.)


There are a few things that cannot be used in d20 products, mostly a few monsters and some specific names (which is why it's "Acid Arrow" not "Melf's Acid Arrow" in the SRD).

To do the equivalent with Open D6, we'd want to have someone with contract experience look over the licensing agreement.

Quote:

I feel that describing it as 'R&E minus Star Wars IP' seems to be a very direct and concise description, and I find that I am failing to think of another way to say it.


Makes perfect sense to me. I just didn't grok it in your first formulation.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
"windshield bugs with lasers".

That'll teach me to check the Pit during church.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
"windshield bugs with lasers".

That'll teach me to check the Pit during church.


...were you wearing a TIE? Twisted Evil
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some spell and monster names, check. I think it is still safe to say that R&E has a lot more IP that would need removed than AD&D did. I would describe Star Wars R&E as IP-heavy since it is a licensed game based on a big multi-media franchise.

cheshire wrote:
Would there be an effort to scrub the IP and keep the page numbers roughly similar, or would new formatting take precedence? The former sounds like a lot of layout work.

There's no possible way the page #s will be in any way similar because we aren't just scrubbing the IP text. It would also be a full removal of all images. The proposed document will be much shorter than R&E. It won't be pretty, but the rules will all be there. If you are familiar with WEG's DC Universe core rule book, take a look at the D6 Legend document for a comparison. It is going to be a no-frills text version of the game rules. And it is going to be a lot of editing work anyway because the source available was poorly OCRed...<Do not talk about fight club.>
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Some spell and monster names, check. I think it is still safe to say that R&E has a lot more IP that would need removed than AD&D did. I would describe Star Wars R&E as IP-heavy since it is a licensed game based on a big multi-media franchise.


Definitely. I think you might be able to get away with a lot of find and replace, if you have a text of the original... which I think would be easier than a hand-transcription.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it has been on indefinite hold for years now, but I was undertaking a D6 system book based on the Open D6 license. I had been rewriting from the ground up so as not to include any IP from familiar sources if I could help it and I used to do all my writing in spiral notebooks to be later transcribed to the computer. I was writing the rules in a core format I was referring to as Standard Writeup for the attributes and skills... or SW format for short Wink That is, I meant for all of the material to be compatible with the most well known of the D6 games and gamers. I had planned to have notes on renaming attributes for differing Genres and creating a basic attribute map. I was also writing an entire new chapter on World Scaling that would affect damage, critical success, etc... to alter the levels for different levels of Heroic, cinematic, or gritty. Over the years I had posted some ideas here in the forums, and back at the WEG forums when they existed *but always met with hostility there which was why I never forked over the money for an official license as it seemed new material was not appreciated).

I have wanted to revisit and revamp this project, but my current life situation has gotten in the way. For what it's worth, I am willing to try to help where I can... especially with layout and artwork as needed and where I have time. A few names I have kicked around for Space Themed campaigns in more Space Opera/Pulp settings are: Savage Universe, Siege Galactic (more of a Galactic War campaign), Chronicles of the Void, Galaxy's End (which was the name of a seedy cantina on a very urban/industrial wor5ld where shady deals went down).

I believe in my archives I have the Space Opera PDF you refer too (I have a large collection of Physical and Digital D6 material I collected and used for references in rules arbitration over the years). I can try to find it if it is needed for reference.
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