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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10286 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Darklighter79 wrote: | Could these rules be adapted to special situations like a massive swarm attack?
Hundreds of small/medium creatures treated as one walker/capital ship opponent? |
And this concept on another scale (pun intended)... There is a species in Hellas (a Hellenic history/mythology inspired space opera RPG), where individuals of the species are actually a hive of insects lead by a queen, who work together to achieve a humanoid form and act as a sentient "person." That's on my to-do list to adapt to Star Wars. Each wound status kills some insects of the hive, and healing involves procreating more insects to replace them. The hive altogether has character-scale. _________________ *
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16163 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:51 am Post subject: |
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Sounds a lot like the Cree-Va from D6 Space (see the Aliens book, pg. 89). _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16163 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Darklighter79 wrote: | Could these rules be adapted to special situations like a massive swarm attack?
Hundreds of small/medium creatures treated as one walker/capital ship opponent? |
I’d prefer to stat the individual creatures as smaller-than-Character-Scale (in the area of -8D or more), then give them an equivalent of a Coordination bonus based on the size of the swarm. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16163 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Naaman wrote: | IMO, any natural attack that allows a creature to "hit everybody" or get a bonus on attack or damage should always come with a trade off. |
Not all trade-offs are - or should be - quantifiable in a stat, though. The Rancor’s trade off may be that it has to eat 100 kilograms of meat per day, and not some sort of combat weakness.
Quote: | My original suggestion was to allow the creature to modulate it's scale modifier (up to it's max damage, while taking a reciprocal penalty on its attack). |
It may end up having that effect, but I'd prefer to phrase it in terms of some other form of bonus that offsets the Scale penalty.
Quote: | But another idea could be to consider the creature "over extended" during/after the attack, imposing a penalty to its reaction skills for the round. Coupled with the RoE attack/damage rules, this could give smaller attackers the opportunity they need to win ("wait for it to try to bite, then shove the spear into it's mouth!"... or some such). |
This somewhat dovetails with my current concept for Brawling and Melee combat, where a single roll of Attack / Reaction covers an entire round of combat, but trying to do both at once incurs a -2D penalty (-1D each for MAP and CAP, but the penalty can be eliminate by choosing to go either Full Attack or Full Defense. In this case, certain, more effective attacks - such as claw sweeps or bull rushes - could be offset by requiring the attacker be unable to make a defense / reaction roll to counter. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16163 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | Maybe then, for larger critters, when they DO attack they can attack Multiple targets with NO maps!? |
Or perhaps they can ignore MAPs equal to their Scale modifier, in order to keep it from getting out of hand. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14023 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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CRMcNeill wrote: | Naaman wrote: | IMO, any natural attack that allows a creature to "hit everybody" or get a bonus on attack or damage should always come with a trade off. |
Not all trade-offs are - or should be - quantifiable in a stat, though. The Rancor’s trade off may be that it has to eat 100 kilograms of meat per day, and not some sort of combat weakness.
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OR maybe after performing said 'sweep attack', if it DOES manage to grab someone, it MUST spend 1d rounds, trying to eat him, before it can attack someone else..
CRMcNeill wrote: | garhkal wrote: | Maybe then, for larger critters, when they DO attack they can attack Multiple targets with NO maps!? |
Or perhaps they can ignore MAPs equal to their Scale modifier, in order to keep it from getting out of hand. |
That's a better compromise. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10286 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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CRMcNeill wrote: | Whill wrote: | ...There is a species in Hellas (a Hellenic history/mythology inspired space opera RPG), where individuals of the species are actually a hive of insects lead by a queen, who work together to achieve a humanoid form and act as a sentient "person." That's on my to-do list to adapt to Star Wars. Each wound status kills some insects of the hive, and healing involves procreating more insects to replace them. The hive altogether has character-scale. |
Sounds a lot like the Cree-Va from D6 Space (see the Aliens book, pg. 89). |
I think there is a very good chance that Jerry was inspired by the Cree-Va when designing the Myrmidons. I haven't asked him about it, but he is a long-time, multiple game licensee of the D6 System (but Hellas is unfortunately is not D6-based). _________________ *
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16163 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:55 am Post subject: |
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As I get deeper into this, I just wanted to make a quick post about what sorts of skills Creatures might have access to:DEX
-Brawling Parry
-Dodge
-Pick Pocket (think Monkeys or Raccoons)
-Running
-Thrown Weapons (rocks or sticks)
KNOW
-Intimidation
-Survival
PER
-Hide
-Search
-Sneak
STR
-Brawling
-Climbing/Jumping*
-Lifting
-Stamina
-Swimming*
*species dependent
TECH
-None, but potentially some species-specific skills for basic construction (beavers are a prime example) Other skills may present themselves, such as a Burrowing skill under Strength to accommodate subterranean creatures like the Graboids from Tremors. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3191
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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I could see in the case of pets (or "animal companions" for characters whose concept revolves around the "ranger" or "druid" type) creatures also having the persuasion or bargain skill, attempting to manipulate their master with "puppy dog eyes" or displays of affection (like cats rubbing up against their owner while purring in order to get strokes along the head or back).
Or perhaps holding out on a task unless a treat is offered, etc. This may or may not come into play with creatures as opponents, but could come into play if trying to "tame" an otherwise hostile creature or when training an animal.
Some such instances may be covered by the PC's persuasion/bargain skill, with the animal simply rolling willpower to resist (might want to add willpower to your list). _________________ .
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14023 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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CRMcNeill wrote: | As I get deeper into this, I just wanted to make a quick post about what sorts of skills Creatures might have access to:DEX
-Brawling Parry
-Dodge
-Pick Pocket (think Monkeys or Raccoons)
-Running
-Thrown Weapons (rocks or sticks) |
I could see adding melee, for those who are large enough to pick up a branch to use. Same for melee parry.
CRMcNeill wrote: | KNOW
-Intimidation
-Survival |
I might add in languages (A # do speak), and maybe willpower.
CRMcNeill wrote: | PER
-Hide
-Search
-Sneak |
Seems right.
CRMcNeill wrote: | STR
-Brawling
-Climbing/Jumping*
-Lifting
-Stamina
-Swimming*
*species dependent
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And flight for those with wings.
CRMcNeill wrote: | TECH
-None, but potentially some species-specific skills for basic construction (beavers are a prime example)Other skills may present themselves, such as a Burrowing skill under Strength to accommodate subterranean creatures like the Graboids from Tremors. |
I could see some having a minimum level of first aid...
Maybe a tech skill, to represent them building their homes.. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10286 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | CRMcNeill wrote: | KNOW
-Intimidation
-Survival |
I might add in languages (A # do speak), and maybe willpower. |
Willpower seems to be a factor of a creature's orneriness code.
garhkal wrote: | CRMcNeill wrote: | As I get deeper into this, I just wanted to make a quick post about what sorts of skills Creatures might have access to:[list]DEX
-Brawling Parry
-Dodge
-Pick Pocket (think Monkeys or Raccoons)
-Running
-Thrown Weapons (rocks or sticks) |
I could see adding melee, for those who are large enough to pick up a branch to use. Same for melee parry. |
Now we are getting into sentience. If I had to stat out great apes, I would stat them as full characters (thus with willpower and not orneriness). Star Wars seems to have a less blurry line between "creatures" and "characters." Are there any film creatures that should even have melee skills? _________________ *
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14023 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Rancors. That's the only one i know of.. But it's been a great many years since i even READ the creatures guide. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Naaman Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3191
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16163 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Whill wrote: | Now we are getting into sentience. If I had to stat out great apes, I would stat them as full characters (thus with willpower and not orneriness). Star Wars seems to have a less blurry line between "creatures" and "characters." Are there any film creatures that should even have melee skills? |
I'd be more inclined to go with a Special Ability of "Prehensile Limbs", which allows a Beast to pick up, throw or make simple movements with objects because it can grasp them (which not all animals can). _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16163 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:33 am Post subject: |
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After some consideration of the size-and-combat issue, I've mostly settled on giving larger creatures a bonus to Brawling equal to 1/2 of their Scale to account for the greater size of the weapon being used (headbutts, giant claws, etc). The two options would be to either insert it straight into the Skill list by applying the bonus to the Brawling skill, or to include it as a special feature based on the creature's size. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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