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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
I'm actually with garhkal on this one. Expanding the absorb/dissipate energy power to include kinetic energy is OP. |
Thanks for the back up..
| Whill wrote: |
It would. It makes a lot of sense that there would be ray shields there. Even though DS-II was still under construction, it wouldn't make sense that there be this uncovered gaping hole between the throne room and the reactor core. But this would mean that ray shields don't just stop physical matter from passing through — they actually damage living matter hitting it. We would need rules for that. |
Well, we've seen precedent for it before, just seeing what happens in Rogue 1, when those
| Whill wrote: |
I agree. To protect verisimilitude with the films, telekinesis definitely cannot be used to stop one's own falling, no matter if it seems like it should. Even Sith and Jedi Masters do not seem to fall any slower than anyone else in the films, so telekinesis doesn't seem to do that. Enhance attribute can increase strength (which includes damage resistance), and reduce injury may be used.
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And maybe they could use TK, near the end of their fall, to try and make a 'cushon' of air under them, but it would be MUCH harder to do than just TKing someone else falling...
| Whill wrote: |
Maybe ray shields are particularly damaging to living beings, and the ray shields the Emperor fell into were capital ship scale. Maybe he was weakened by his own Force lightning he shot into Vader because he was touching Vader — Palpatine was very vengeance-minded so maybe he just thought, 'If I'm dying, I am taking this traitor with me.' |
True, Palpaltine, DID get hit by his own force lightning, and thus was weakened...
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: The Force and Falling Damage |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | 2) An obscure Absorb/Dissipate variant that works on gravity, effectively reducing the effective of gravity on the character without altering its mass. |
The concept for this one didn't happen in a vacuum, rather, it's based on a power from Palladium's Ninjas & Superspies game. In particular, it's based on one of the Zenjoriki or Kamijutsu "spirit powers" (quasi-mystical martial arts abilities) called Karumi-Jutsu.Karumi-Jutsu. The character has a mystic ability that allows him to reduce his body's weight by 85%. Thus, a 200lb (90kg) man would weigh a mere 30lbs. There are only a few restrictions. First, it only works on the character's own body, not on any possessions or clothing. Second, it works only when invoked, and definitely does not work if the character is in combat or unconscious. It requires total concentration, and the character can perform no other attacks, defenses or actions during the melee round when the character is using the power. Karumi-Jutsu allows for the following abilities:
Falling: The character can fall from up to 2000ft (610m) distance and land without suffering more than 2D4 damage. Great distances will do one (1) point of damage for every additional 20ft (6.1m) of height.
Jumping: The ability to jump great distances, up to 10 times the character's normal distance (usually about 50ft/15m).
Climbing: The character can climb any surface without fear of failure/falling.
Treading Lightly: The character can walk across delicate surfaces, or extremely fragile bridges, without fear of collapse. Likewise, the character can walk on objects as delicate as china teacups without causing damage or disturbance.
Note: Duration is indefinite, as long as the character continues to concentrate on being lightweight. Combat will break the concentration.
NOTE: The bold text is from the original source, and is included for accuracy. Basically, this one power incorporates super-jumping, falling and the super-human agility stuff seen in either Kung Fu movies or the Clone Wars lightsaber fights, all from the Jedi manipulating his own body so that gravity has a reduced effect on him.
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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3191
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | Replying from here.
| garhkal wrote: | That windu jump from that box, was barely 20ft or so up. Not that difficult for someone with good strength.
Heck even at 30ft, that's barely 2d falling damage based on the fact, that in SW, falling damage is in meters.. |
That's not 20-30 ft. He fell for atleast two seconds, which if he was free-falling puts him about 20 meters up, or about 60-70ft. On top of that, he lands on his feet without performing a roll and only stops long enough to take off his robe before charging straight into battle. |
3.2 feet per second, per second would work out to 9.6 feet of falling if we are looking at exactly 2 seconds. And then there's "movie time." So two seconds on the time stamp could be any amount of time in a film.
But two seconds of falling isn't going to be 65+ feet.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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Every reference I can find puts it at 9.8 m/s ^2, and I included the link to the calculator I used to achieve the result. Even factoring in air resistance (which is one of the options), the end result comes out to ~20 meters
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:35 am Post subject: |
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So you're literally trying to pull a weird as heck power, from an entirely different game system in, and using that to justify your stance??
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | So you're literally trying to pull a weird as heck power, from an entirely different game system in, and using that to justify your stance?? |
Because no one on this forum ever comes up with ”weird as heck” powers. 
I said this is what I was using as the source. Explain to me why a character using the Force to reduce the pull of gravity on their own body (which would have the end result of the power I quoted above) is somehow more ridiculous and unexplainable than the ability to telekinetically thicken air to make someone move slower.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Every reference I can find puts it at 9.8 m/s ^2, and I included the link to the calculator I used to achieve the result. Even factoring in air resistance (which is one of the options), the end result comes out to ~20 meters |
😂
Not sure why I remembered it as 3.2 when it should have been 32. Lol.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | Not sure why I remembered it as 3.2 when it should have been 32. Lol. |
Been there. I once completely screwed up the sublight travel time from one planet to another because my phone calculator ran out of digits and chopped a zero off the end mid-calculation.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | When I sat at garhkal's table, he had his Inquisitor-ish character use a weird as heck power on all the PCs to end the adventure. |
That doesn't surprise me.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | So you're literally trying to pull a weird as heck power, from an entirely different game system in, and using that to justify your stance?? |
Because no one on this forum ever comes up with ”weird as heck” powers. |
When I sat at garhkal's table, he had his Inquisitor-ish character use a weird as heck power on all the PCs to end the adventure. |
Ah, you are on about that one similar to force lightning that was more fire based, coming from the inside out!
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:23 am Post subject: Re: The Force and Falling Damage |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | It has come up in another topic that Force users have some mechanism to mitigate or eliminate falling damage. Rather than hijack OP's topic, let's move the discussion here.
I see several avenues to achieve this result, all based on or extrapolated from other powers:1) Telekinetically slowing the character's fall to manageable speed.
2) An obscure Absorb/Dissipate variant that works on gravity, effectively reducing the effective of gravity on the character without altering its mass.
3) An expanded version of Absorb/Dissipate Energy that works against kinetic attacks and impact energy (falling damage). Discuss. |
Characters hit the ground very hard.
Kenobi two levels and Maul one level with no broken arms or backs. (Behind the scenes)
Kenobi vs Jango - not a flexible cord
Anakin takes it to a new level - long range trajectory farseeing, taking max of 9D from falling and not loosing his arms from the sockets by catching a passing speeder.
I use Free Fall Force Power based on D6 Space/ Fantasy source material.
It gives extra D(s) to resist damage but only for that one particular moment of "landing". I wanted to avoid being it some kind of force shield for all kinds of attack for that round or more. So if a character during the fall gets shot by a blaster or swarmed by angry seagulls, no protection there. (Windu was deflecting shots during his fall to the areana).
PS. She has that power too, although it hurts every time I see it.
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Whill
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: The Force and Falling Damage |
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| Darklighter79 wrote: | | Characters hit the ground very hard. |
There's hitting the ground hard from a few feet up, and there's hitting the ground hard from several stories up. Most of those clips look like the latter. If a character were to free fall from 20 meters up, they would be traveling almost 70km/h on impact.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Dredwulf60
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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The ability for Jedi to reduce damage from falling is an important power I think. It fits with the martial art monk aspect of the Jedi. While I personally wouldn't quote Palladium rules systems for anything, (I hate that system so much) I did play a fair bit of Ninjas and Superspies in my day (I had to learn to hate the system somewhere...)
In addition to what CR quoted; Ninja just has the ability to fall from great heights and not take damage. Like...a completely separate power not related to the former (typical Palladium) and certainly not explained how it functions.
I remember this because there were many games where I had baddie Ninja NPCs jump from high places to retreat and the Secret Agent PCs just couldn't follow.
So however the game mechanics work, I think while Jedi should not be immune to death by falling, heights really don't seem to bother them much.
Philosophically I think it would be akin to drowning; if you know how to swim, you aren't terrified to go into deep water...even though if you get tired, distracted or hurt, you are in serious danger of death, just by being in that environment.
When we see a Jedi bail out of a speeder to drop into Coruscant traffic, or diving out of a hyper-highrise to grab a small hovering droid, they don't even think twice.
Maybe it can be explained by other factors, but I think at least a portion of it is the knowledge that they have been well trained to survive falls from incredible heights as long as they keep their wits and concentration.
So with that rationale, I think they Jedi should be able to learn how to dissipate the energy from a fall as a power and perhaps link the difficulty of it to how much falling inertia they need the Force to account for. |
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