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First Edition Lightsaber Combat in Second Edition?
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Alastor04
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:31 pm    Post subject: First Edition Lightsaber Combat in Second Edition? Reply with quote

Would it be game breaking to allow first edition's version of lightsaber combat in second edition?

I do not like it as written in second edition. I was thinking for my games I might try the following:

You can roll Sense as a reaction in place of dodge against blaster fire and other ranged attacks determined by GM. As an additional action after using Sense to deflect a ranged attack you can redirect shot by making a Control roll in the place of an attack roll with difficulty treated as if you fired the shot.

You can increase or decrease your lightsaber's damage by Control die.

The lightsaber skill would still function as written to attack and parry melee attacks.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: First Edition Lightsaber Combat in Second Edition? Reply with quote

The combat round is different in all editions and sub-editions. So what I think you are asking is, apply sense and control as in 1e lightsaber combat, but still have combat work as it otherwise does in 2eR&E? Sure, that could work. But would any Force-sensitive character be able to pick up a lightsaber for the first time in their lives and do that? Or would they still have to have a certain power, possibly with prerequisites, to do that?
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Alastor04
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets say I make it 3 powers:

Sense Power - Lightsaber Deflection: Allows you to roll Sense skill to deflect blaster fire and other attacks determined by GM. No Requirements

Control Power - Lightsaber Redirect: Allows you to make a Control roll to redirect attacks after successfully deflecting them. The difficulty of the Control roll is determined as if you made the attack. Requires: Lightsaber Deflection

Control Power - Attune Kyber Crystal: When wielding a lightsaber you have created you may increase or decrease damage by your Control die. Requires: Kyber Crystal (often earned) and personally constructed lightsaber.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alastor04 wrote:
Lets say I make it 3 powers:

Sense Power - Lightsaber Deflection: Allows you to roll Sense skill to deflect blaster fire and other attacks determined by GM. No Requirements

Control Power - Lightsaber Redirect: Allows you to make a Control roll to redirect attacks after successfully deflecting them. The difficulty of the Control roll is determined as if you made the attack. Requires: Lightsaber Deflection

These work better as a single power, with a higher Difficulty if you want to Redirect. Control is about manipulating the Force in one's own body, which doesn't fit with redirecting blaster bolts nearly as well as Sense does.

The other drawback of the 1E method (which is amended in 2E) is that the Force also assists the Jedi in lightsaber duels. Under the 1E rules, the duels are effectively based solely on the character's Dexterity skill.

Quote:
Control Power - Attune Kyber Crystal: When wielding a lightsaber you have created you may increase or decrease damage by your Control die. Requires: Kyber Crystal (often earned) and personally constructed lightsaber.

Attuning a Kyber Crystal would be an Alter power (since the character is manipulating the Force outside their own body).
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: First Edition Lightsaber Combat in Second Edition? Reply with quote

Alastor04 wrote:

You can roll Sense as a reaction in place of dodge against blaster fire and other ranged attacks determined by GM.


Have you ever considered "scaling" force skill to regular skill? What I have in mind: RAW suggest in some cases that 3D in a Force skill > 3D in regular skill. For example: Alter roll of 20 for telekinesis allows a Jedi to move more weight than 20 on a lifting roll. Same for Sense: Magnify Senses roll of 20 vs Perception roll of 20 (range of spotting).

So I was wondering how roll of 20 (Sense) vs 20 (Dodge) would/should be compared? Like in this: pure Sense training combat.

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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:41 am    Post subject: Re: First Edition Lightsaber Combat in Second Edition? Reply with quote

Alastor04 wrote:
Would it be game breaking to allow first edition's version of lightsaber combat in second edition?

I do not like it as written in second edition. I was thinking for my games I might try the following:

You can roll Sense as a reaction in place of dodge against blaster fire and other ranged attacks determined by GM. As an additional action after using Sense to deflect a ranged attack you can redirect shot by making a Control roll in the place of an attack roll with difficulty treated as if you fired the shot.

You can increase or decrease your lightsaber's damage by Control die.

The lightsaber skill would still function as written to attack and parry melee attacks.


FWIW, this is almost exactly how I prefer to run it.

Works great along woth a few other house rules that make minor changes to character creation.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts:

1) Expanded Combat Sense, where the Jedi gets either 1/2 of their Sense Dice or +2D (whichever is greater) added to the appropriate skill.

2) Jedi parries / redirects blaster bolts using Sense dice only.

3) No Control modifier to Damage, but Jedi gets +1 to Damage for every 3 points by which he beats the Difficulty for Lightsaber.

4) Lightsabers inflict cumulative damage that stacks the longer the blade is applied to the target, beginning with +1D the second round, +1D+2 for the third round, +2D the fourth round, and so on, increasing by 1D every time the number of rounds doubles.

5) However, the heat build-up from the cumulative damage also affects the Jedi, equal to the cumulative damage modifier (if the Jedi has applied his saber for four consecutive rounds, he gets a 2D bonus to Lightsaber Damage, but also takes 2D energy damage).
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also worth nothing that in the EU, you didn't need a lightsaber just to block a blaster bolt; Joruus C'baoth blocked a blaster bolt with a rock using telekinesis. it's just that most mundane objects will also take damage from the blaster bolt, and can't be used to redirect it.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Also worth nothing that in the EU, you didn't need a lightsaber just to block a blaster bolt; Joruus C'baoth blocked a blaster bolt with a rock using telekinesis. it's just that most mundane objects will also take damage from the blaster bolt, and can't be used to redirect it.


Other systems have a similar option. The Jedi uses the same senses/relfexes to use any object in hand to block blasters; even armored guantles (ala Wonder Woman) would qualify. If no such device is available, the Jedi may use bare hands (or face, I suppose) at the expense of a force point.

But only a lightsaber can redirect.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Also worth nothing that in the EU, you didn't need a lightsaber just to block a blaster bolt; Joruus C'baoth blocked a blaster bolt with a rock using telekinesis. it's just that most mundane objects will also take damage from the blaster bolt, and can't be used to redirect it.


True he just TK'ed the rock in the bolts path...
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Also worth nothing that in the EU, you didn't need a lightsaber just to block a blaster bolt; Joruus C'baoth blocked a blaster bolt with a rock using telekinesis. it's just that most mundane objects will also take damage from the blaster bolt, and can't be used to redirect it.


TBH, that's why I like the idea of hand-held shields. You can shoot at me, but you're probably gonna hit the door I'm carrying, not me.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
TBH, that's why I like the idea of hand-held shields. You can shoot at me, but you're probably gonna hit the door I'm carrying, not me.

That's more like mobile Cover than parrying, though. There should probably be a dividing line between shields you can parry with and something like a tower shield or SWAT ballistic shield.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
TBH, that's why I like the idea of hand-held shields. You can shoot at me, but you're probably gonna hit the door I'm carrying, not me.

That's more like mobile Cover than parrying, though. There should probably be a dividing line between shields you can parry with and something like a tower shield or SWAT ballistic shield.


Even if you're not actively parrying, even a smallish shield is going to be a bit of cover. Assuming a half-meter diameter, that's still 1/4 cover if it's pointed towards the guy with the blaster.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe just cut the corner and apply the Cover modifier to the character's Melee/Brawling Parry, then just treat it as normal Cover for ranged attacks, maybe with the option to crouch behind smaller Cover and increase the modifier?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Maybe just cut the corner and apply the Cover modifier to the character's Melee/Brawling Parry...

I agree that a shield would just be normal be Cover for ranged weapons, but bringing melee parrying into this is a tangent from the Force blaster parry. It is true that WEG SW doesn't take what specifically being used to parry as a factor in the rules for parrying, but if it should, I'm thinking the full cover modifier is probably too much. Maybe pip per die would work. But this would best be discussed it another thread. I'm sure we've talked about shields before, and if so I imagine range defense would probably have come up.

Naaman wrote:
Other systems have a similar option. The Jedi uses the same senses/relfexes to use any object in hand to block blasters; even armored guantles (ala Wonder Woman) would qualify. If no such device is available, the Jedi may use bare hands (or face, I suppose) at the expense of a force point.

But only a lightsaber can redirect.

But unless the bracelets are magic, then they would probably be single use.
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