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Tactics: A New Old Approach
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just think it'll make for more interesting storytelling if it's happening more often.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would that work with search vs sneak?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
How would that work with search vs sneak?

It wouldn’t, because it’s a different kind of surprise.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea is, rather than sneaking up on an opponent in a way in which they can't react, you come up with a tactic / action that so surprises the enemy that they are temporarily unable to react to it.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting.. I take it, it would be an opposed roll as well?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Very interesting.. I take it, it would be an opposed roll as well?

Primarily, except if the combat scenario didn't have a Commander to roll against. And bonuses would be applied to either side depending on how much of a tactical advantage they brought to the table, such as the Imperial side having prior intel and planning an ambush, etc.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting topic.

I always used house rules on tactics.

With the right tactical deployment of a team/squad you can reaonably both reduce your own penalties, and add penalties to the opponent.

even to a degree negate cover, reduce your own MAP, add penalties to the opponent and more.

But I never had anything really written up.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giving this a bump on account of previous discussions on Dodge.

I'm leaning more and more strongly toward making Dodge an Advanced Skill and only allowing it to be rolled in combination with a Move action, but I don't want to discard Naaman's point about the role that Tactics play. Also, although we were specifically referring to Tactics in relation to Dodge, I expect it has more general application, in that a character using Tactics to read the terrain to generate offensive advantage, not just defensive.

So, I'm thinking that, in addition to the conversion rule posted above, there should be a separate rule where the character can roll Tactics to "read the terrain" in order to maximize cover, firing arcs, concealment, etc. This would extend to the Dodge function that Naaman describes in the above link.

The main problem I see is what form the Difficulty chart would take. Any thoughts?
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sounds like something that requires prior knowledge of the battlefield.

Or, in the case of incidental contact with an enemy, an opposed tactics roll would be required, and the winner grants a bonus to his side proportionate to to the margin of success.

Lastly, in an asymetrical scenario, the tactics roll might get a bonus or penalty depending on the capabilities of each side. For example, if one side is relying on darkness to avoid being directly targeted, but the opponent has thermal or nightvision, then this would reduce to zero the value of that particular tactic.

You could streamline it by giving a bonus or penalty on the tactics roll based on what the character could/should (or could not/should not) know about the capabilities of the opponent in question.

Or you could have a separate roll (perhaps using some other skill) to determine what tue commander knows about the opponent (like, an assessment roll to see what information can be gained; scouts could also relay this info via commlink, or the commamder could use binos to spy out the enemy before reaching engagement range, etc.).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Familiarity with the terrain should absolutely be a factor, but in-universe, Tactics has an on-the-fly aspect to it, where a character in a strange situation can do something along the lines of what I describe here. Might even be room for a Search roll to spot crucial details, which in turn provides a bonus to Tactics.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds reasonable.

I would consider putting a cap on any bonus provided by tactics, similar to your cooperation bonus. Scale it hyperbolically so that another +1 is exponentially harder the higher you get.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
I would consider putting a cap on any bonus provided by tactics, similar to your cooperation bonus. Scale it hyperbolically so that another +1 is exponentially harder the higher you get.

I think the limits of dice ranges provide an appropriate cap. After all, in a cinematic setting, a character having a moment of "divine inspiration" that generates an overpowering bonus (or even just recognizing that the environment is uniquely suited to a particular tactic) makes for a fun and exciting moment in the story.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, if I were to institute the Surprised result, would you consider it a better advantage than the Anticipate (redeclare actions) result?

In general, I'm considering several possible success results from both the OP and later revisions, including:
    Advantage (Winner automatically wins Initiative)
    Deception (Winner may redeclare their actions once loser has declared theirs)
    Surprise (Loser is Surprised, as per the rules for Surprise on pg. 96 of the 2R&E Rulebook)

    I'm also considering stacking results at some of the higher levels, such as Surprise, plus Advantage the following round.
I'm considering several of the results from the first version as part of a supplemental usage, which I've tentatively termed Improvise, where the Tactician makes calls on the fly based on the specifics of the environment. Basically, depending on how well he rolls, he generates a minor bonus for his team, selected from the following list:
    1-2 = Anticipate (+1D to Initiative)
    3-4 = Survey (+1D to Cover)
    5-6 = Advice (+1D to any one skill)

    For every additional 5 points of Success, make an additional roll. Any duplicate bonuses stack.
Finally, I'm thinking of incorporating a rule that allows the character to re-roll the Advantage/Deception/Surprise roll mid-combat, albeit at a high difficulty.

Thoughts?
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about this:

Command groups can substitute tactics for Perception in initiative. Using the highest command skill (or the skill of the actual leader), you determine a command group. If no one has a high enough command to cover the entire group (say, you have 6 people, and the best command is 4D), you will have 2 different groups, rolling Perception or tactics individually for initiative. A command group must have at least 2 people, and only command groups can roll tactics (since it represents coordination of abilities).

Note: A command group does not need to use the tactics skill of the commander. To use the Bad Batch as an example, Hunter is usually the group head (I view him has being highly Perception-focused, and he's often the leader, anyway), but Omega has the highest tactics skill (I view her as being Knowledge-focused). If she's with the group, then their tactics is higher than if they have to rely on someone else.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that's essentially what the Advantage result would be; whoever gets the highest result on an opposed Tactics roll automatically wins Initiative.

And really, the hard cap on the number of people to be commanded is one of the stupider rules WEG ever came up with. I outright ignore it, especially for military units or groups that have worked together for a while.
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