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Particle Shields
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't someone suggesting elsewhere that the way to deal with particle shields being down was to add to the damage rolled?

Like, if I have a 3D hull and lose my particle shields, then someone shoots me, they do +xD damage (whether you want it to be 1D or 2D is irrelevant to me). That way, I don't have to reduce my hull, but they still get the advantage of extra damage against me.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer to keep modifiers on the side of the value being modified unless there's no other option.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I prefer to keep modifiers on the side of the value being modified unless there's no other option.


And I get that, but that's the problem, isn't it? Sure, we could say my 3D hull becomes 1D because I lost 2D from my particle shields... but if I have a 1D hull, the damage bonus is the only option.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or just reduce Particle Shields to 1D for all ships (as Whill suggested in the OP), with the option of upgrading to 2D as a modification.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right.

MrNexx wrote:
whether you want it to be 1D or 2D is irrelevant

It's not irrelevant because the whole problem in RAW comes from the fact that it is 2D (because it gives you 2D-2D=0D situations). Making it only 1D completely solves the problem.

I've reduced Particle Shields to only 1D of the Hull, and added Particle Shields to the spaceship damage and repair system. This very simple solution works for me. Some GMs may like more complex solutions.

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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Right.

MrNexx wrote:
whether you want it to be 1D or 2D is irrelevant

It's not irrelevant because the whole problem in RAW comes from the fact that it is 2D (because it gives you 2D-2D=0D situations). Making it only 1D completely solves the problem.

I've reduced Particle Shields to only 1D of the Hull, and added Particle Shields to the spaceship damage and repair system. This very simple solution works for me. Some GMs may like more complex solutions.

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I thought there were some canon ships with 1D hull ratings? I may be misremembering.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
I thought there were some canon ships with 1D hull ratings? I may be misremembering.

I can't think of any. If they exist, they're few and far between.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
But regarding particle and ray shields both providing protection against physical and energy attacks, isn't it still true that, "the shaft is ray-shielded, so you'll have to use proton torpedoes"? So proton torpedoes can bypass ray shields, right?

The scene from RotS aboard the Invisible Hand suggests that ray shields don't allow matter to pass through them, either. This is part of what sparked my latest re-write of proton torpedoes, cocooning them in an energy sheath that both protects the torpedo from damage (from point defense weaponry and the like) and partially disrupts any energy shields they encounter.

That depends on which side of the shield is the ship. Droid fighters went through the shield from inside the hangar.

Just like these two fighters passed though Venator's shield after close fly by.
They used boosters not to loose speed? Like droid walking though the shield in TMP.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
That depends on which side of the shield is the ship. Droid fighters went through the shield from inside the hangar.

...No. That's two different kinds of shields. The hangar bay shields keep atmosphere in but can allow ships to pass through them. I'm referring to the corridor trap used to capture Obi-wan, Anakin and Palpatine just before they face off with Grievous on the Invisible Hand's bridge. Those shields are specifically referred to as "ray shields", which is their only time said shields are mentioned apart from the Yavin briefing, describing the thermal exhaust port as being protected by the same type of shield.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
Whill wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
whether you want it to be 1D or 2D is irrelevant

It's not irrelevant because the whole problem in RAW comes from the fact that it is 2D (because it gives you 2D-2D=0D situations). Making it only 1D completely solves the problem.

I've reduced Particle Shields to only 1D of the Hull, and added Particle Shields to the spaceship damage and repair system. This very simple solution works for me. Some GMs may like more complex solutions.

Star Wars Damage D6
I thought there were some canon ships with 1D hull ratings? I may be misremembering.

I can't think of any. If they exist, they're few and far between.

I think the Rancor Pit starship compilation has a ship that has a 1D+2 hull, but I don't remember if that was just an obscure WEG ship or fan stats or a fan conversion. Most ships have over 2D hull, but the common ship where this RAW is all problem is the TIE variations with 2D hull. Reducing the hull reduction to only 1D of the hull solves the problem for the commonly appearing TIE. It also means more of the hull is the strength of the hull itself and not the particle shields. Unshielded hulls are simply too weak in RAW. My simple solution solved that too.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WEG RAW says that the particle shields have to be lowered to launch missiles or vehicles.

CRMcNeill wrote:
Darklighter79 wrote:
That depends on which side of the shield is the ship. Droid fighters went through the shield from inside the hangar.

...No. That's two different kinds of shields. The hangar bay shields keep atmosphere in but can allow ships to pass through them.

The "magnetic field/shield" from ANH? That's problematic.

As the Falcon is being tractored into the Death Star, an Imperial voice says, "Clear bay 327. We are opening the magnetic field." After the Falcon has landed, an Imperial voice says, "Close all outboard shields. Close all outboard shields." That does make it seem like a particle shield used to contain atmosphere (gaseous particles), and they had to deactivate this field to allow the Falcon into the hanger, which meant all crew not in space worthy suits would have to clear the hanger bay. Once the Falcon was in the hanger they would reactivate the magnetic field and re-pressurize the bay. However that seems at odds with Red Leader's comment at the start of the Battle of Yavin, "We're passing through the magnetic field. Hold tight," which was said when the Rebel ships were distant enough to still see the curvature of the Death Star. And there would be no reason to extend atmosphere around the entire Death Star, especially to that distance.

In RotS, after Anakin says Grievous' ship is crawling with vulture droids, some are shown parked on the outside of the hull, but then in a wider angle shot it does also show three droid tri-fighters passing right through the hanger's containment field to exit the hanger.
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Last edited by Whill on Sun Dec 18, 2022 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Darklighter79 wrote:
That depends on which side of the shield is the ship. Droid fighters went through the shield from inside the hangar.

...No. That's two different kinds of shields. The hangar bay shields keep atmosphere in but can allow ships to pass through them.


That depends on a plot. Anakin in TPM could fly inside the ship with shield still up.

Anakin and Obi could not pass through hangar shield. They had to disable it first.. But the droids could fly through while leaving the ship.

CRMcNeill wrote:
Those shields are specifically referred to as "ray shields", which is their only time said shields are mentioned apart from the Yavin briefing, describing the thermal exhaust port as being protected by the same type of shield.


As for those: I think these were dangerous for the organic matter - contact with those could cause burns or something like that. But the shield provided no resistance to stop the matter. If i had to give the closest reference it would be like this.

Whill wrote:
In RotS, after Anakin says Grievous' ship is crawling with vulture droids, some are shown parked on the outside of the hull, but then in a wider angle shot it does also show three droid tri-fighters passing right though the hanger's containment field to exit the hanger.


This scene exactly. And in ANH during the escape of the Faclon only tractor beam was disabled and not the internal and external magnetic fields as these seem to be no problem while leaving.

Also remember how selective the gunan water shields were. Tons of water were hold back but living beings and vehicles could pass through.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
WEG RAW says that the particle shields have to be lowered to launch missiles or vehicles.

CRMcNeill wrote:
Darklighter79 wrote:
That depends on which side of the shield is the ship. Droid fighters went through the shield from inside the hangar.

...No. That's two different kinds of shields. The hangar bay shields keep atmosphere in but can allow ships to pass through them.

The "magnetic field/shield" from ANH? That's problematic.

As the Falcon is being tractored into Falcon, an Imperial voice says, "Clear bay 327. We are opening the magnetic field." After the Falcon has landed, an Imperial voice says, "Close all outboard shields. Close all outboard shields." That does make it seem like a particle shield used to contain atmosphere (gaseous particles), and they had to deactivate this field to allow the Falcon into the hanger, which meant all crew not in space worthy suits would have to clear the hanger bay. Once the Falcon was in the hanger they would reactivate the magnetic field and repressurize the bay. However that seems at odds with Red Leader's comment at the start of the Battle of Yavin, "We're passing through the magnetic field. Hold tight," which was said when the Rebel ships were distant enough to still see the curvature of the Death Star. And there would be no reason to extend atmosphere around the entire Death Star, especially to that distance.

In RotS, after Anakin says Grievous' ship is crawling with vulture droids, some are shown parked on the outside of the hull, but then in a wider angle shot it does also show three droid tri-fighters passing right though the hanger's containment field to exit the hanger.


Perhaps the key is the tractor beam. The tractor beam cannot function reliably through the magnetic field of the DS, assuming the emitter is on the outside of the hangar bay and it's being used to guide the unpiloted Millennium Falcon to a precision touch-down.

Under its own power, the craft has no problem passing through.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Cool. ^

Darklighter79 wrote:
Also remember how selective the gunan water shields were. Tons of water were hold back but living beings and vehicles could pass through.

Gungan shields are a different beast, made from a material inside of the planet Naboo. They pointedly allow slow moving solid objects and beings to go through, underwater or in air. I don't feel Gungan shields are portrayed to be indicative of how galactic shield technology works in general.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They pointedly allow slow moving solid objects and beings to go through, underwater or in air. I don't feel Gungan shields are portrayed to be indicative of how galactic shield technology works in general.


Not exactly as this feature was also present in other types of shields like droideka, so its not gungan exclusive.

Anyway, the point was that there is no one standard for technology as it comes in many variations due to alien designs and materials used. So, a different approach is needed for each situation.

Sometimes ship gets vaporized in contact with deflector leaving capital ship unharmed.
Sometimes you can bypass the deflector unharmed and do some real damage to the capital ship
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