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pakman
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Joined: 20 Jul 2021
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 Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:43 pm Post subject: Creating a new ref manual - contents and organization? |
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The Situation
To make a long story short about to start a new d6 based Star Wars campaign.
My co-gm and I have been playing SWRPG of various flavors, and we are going with a somewhat heavily extended version of 2.5 (with added in content from various other sources and updated to reflect content in the last 20+ years.).
As we have house rules all over the place, including upgrading many things to newer version of D6 content (d6 space, opend6, etc.) we have decided to just put together a new book.
(I have writing and document experience in putting together manuals in the day job etc. - so not too big a pain).
THIS post is not about the rules changes themselves (I will make other posts about that) but this is about what content should go in, and how it should be organized.
Also, while I love and appreciate the work the REUP team did - and think the content consolidation was awesome - it did not change any of the things in the base game which we consider problematic.
Which is fair - as that was not their goal.
The Audience
My players all know what role-playing games are, etc. They are all fairly familiar with Star Wars and can all read Wookiepedia for certain story parts (i.e. I only need stats on races, not their fluff in most of the time, etc.).
I won't be including tons of lore or sections of the galaxy or anything like that (we have a campaign website, and a reference list).
Manual Organization
The Ask to any Experienced SWRPG d6 Players out there.
I have a few questions for some other gamer's out there - on some specific sections - both on inclusion and on order.
While I overall love the old 2.5 D6, I found it terribly organized - I felt like I was always skipping back and forth for things.
So we are trying to organize this better....
Here are some specific questions - (with numbers to make responses easier).
1) Does the book need the solo adventure to walk experienced gamers through how to play?
2) Would you keep all the "Hi, I am an NPC and I am going to explain this section to you" type content?
3) Would you do "how the game works" i.e. the basics, before OR after character creation?
4) Would you have a PLAYER section and GM section?
5) What would you CUT OUT of the 2.5 version of the game? (Revised and expanded).
6) What was not really clear in 2.5 that needs better explanation?
7) Would you put the list of races in the back? or the front near character creation?
8) Would you put the equipment and gear up front? or the back?
9) Where in the rules would you put force powers?
Thank you for your input. Again, this post is about organization of content.
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SW Fan, Gamer, Comic, Corporate nerd.
Working on massive House Rules document - pretty much a new book. Will post soon.... |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Creating a new ref manual - contents and organization? |
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That's a lot!
| pakman wrote: | | What was not really clear in 2.5 that needs better explanation? |
See the below post for a concise list of things I thought were deficient with the rules. Then you can scroll up to the top of the page to see links to web pages with my solutions, and read the posts in between for more detailed commentary about the changes I made.
https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=201921#201921
One thing not commented on there was the R&E shield rules being vague about being able to shift shield dice allocation as an action (instead of only as a reaction), which was clarified by D6 Space and updated in my house rules.
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pakman
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Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Creating a new ref manual - contents and organization? |
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| Whill wrote: | That's a lot!
| pakman wrote: | | What was not really clear in 2.5 that needs better explanation? |
See the below post for a concise list of things I thought were deficient with the rules. Then you can scroll up to the top of the page to see links to web pages with my solutions, and read the posts in between for more detailed commentary about the changes I made.
https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=201921#201921
One thing not commented on there was the R&E shield rules being vague about being able to shift shield dice allocation as an action (instead of only as a reaction), which was clarified by D6 Space and updated in my house rules. |
Thanks for the thoughts.
Actually, many of the house rules we are considering have indeed been covered here at the pit (or occasionally other places - I mean...d6 been around for a while).
However - given your extensive background and knowledge - I would love your input on the rules organization...
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SW Fan, Gamer, Comic, Corporate nerd.
Working on massive House Rules document - pretty much a new book. Will post soon.... |
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pakman
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Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Follow up;
My house rules are coming along well - 90% of the force rules are done, and I am working on other organization (yes will, I need to post up my force powers as advanced skills...).
However, my next question;
How would you sequence/change the ORDER of the rules in the book?
in other words, the organization.
Many have made comments about the book bring poorly organized, so I am curious as to what they would change.
For Reference, here is the rough layout of REUP;
1 - INTRO
* SOLO ADVENTURE
* PLAYER HANDOUT (How the game works)
2 - Characters
* Template and Char Creation
* Background options, etc.
3 - ATTRIBUTES AND SKILLS
* Including skill difficulties
* Including Improving equipment
4 - GM Tips
5 - THE RULES
* Actions, Die Codes, Force Points etc.
6 - Combat/Injuries/Healing
7 - MOVEMENT - Char and Vehicles
8 - SPACE TRAVEL AND COMBAT
9 - Battles
10 - THE FORCE - and force powers
11- Running Adventures
12 - Designing Adventures
13 - SAMPLE ADVENTURE
14 - THE GALAXY (about the setting).
15 - NPCs
16 - ALIENS
17 - CREATURES
18 - EQUIPMENT and GEAR
19 - DROIDS (reference)
20 - VEHICLES (reference)
21 - SPACESHIPS (reference).
22 - PLANETS (reference).
Reference Tables
Character Templates
"
For example, I am considering placing the force powers section BEFORE all the stuff on space travel and vehicle combat, as using force powers feels more character related than what a character does.
Those kinds of changes.
Also, what would you drop? (I am taking out 99% of the galaxy and lore stuff - for example - as those can vary by campaign).
Thanks in advance.
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SW Fan, Gamer, Comic, Corporate nerd.
Working on massive House Rules document - pretty much a new book. Will post soon.... |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14033
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:32 am Post subject: Re: Creating a new ref manual - contents and organization? |
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| pakman wrote: |
Manual Organization
The Ask to any Experienced SWRPG d6 Players out there.
I have a few questions for some other gamer's out there - on some specific sections - both on inclusion and on order.
While I overall love the old 2.5 D6, I found it terribly organized - I felt like I was always skipping back and forth for things.
So we are trying to organize this better....
Here are some specific questions - (with numbers to make responses easier).
1) Does the book need the solo adventure to walk experienced gamers through how to play?
2) Would you keep all the "Hi, I am an NPC and I am going to explain this section to you" type content?
3) Would you do "how the game works" i.e. the basics, before OR after character creation?
4) Would you have a PLAYER section and GM section?
5) What would you CUT OUT of the 2.5 version of the game? (Revised and expanded).
6) What was not really clear in 2.5 that needs better explanation?
7) Would you put the list of races in the back? or the front near character creation?
8) Would you put the equipment and gear up front? or the back?
9) Where in the rules would you put force powers?
Thank you for your input. Again, this post is about organization of content. |
1) Does it need a solo adventure? Imo no.
2) I always LIKED those 'npc explains some stuff" aspects of the intros into each section, that 2e R&E had (can't remember if 1e or 2e base had them though).
3) Before for some of it, as you imo need to know certain things, before doing character generation.
4) Yes i would have a separate area for players, and another for dms.
5) Cut out? Unsure right now.
6) Like whill said, BETTER rules or explainations on damage for certain things.
IE, why is one hit, that is great in damage, sufficient to destroy even a capital ship. OR why is a small fighter, totally ionized, when it has no where near as many ship systems as a large freighter, by the same damage result?
7) 8 and 9), Front for all BUT the force..
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Grimace
Captain
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Montana; Big Sky Country
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Creating a new ref manual - contents and organization? |
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| pakman wrote: | The Situation ...snip....
Here are some specific questions - (with numbers to make responses easier).
1) Does the book need the solo adventure to walk experienced gamers through how to play?
2) Would you keep all the "Hi, I am an NPC and I am going to explain this section to you" type content?
3) Would you do "how the game works" i.e. the basics, before OR after character creation?
4) Would you have a PLAYER section and GM section?
5) What would you CUT OUT of the 2.5 version of the game? (Revised and expanded).
6) What was not really clear in 2.5 that needs better explanation?
7) Would you put the list of races in the back? or the front near character creation?
8) Would you put the equipment and gear up front? or the back?
9) Where in the rules would you put force powers?
Thank you for your input. Again, this post is about organization of content. |
1, No, you don't NEED a solo adventure. That is there largely to give a person an idea of HOW a game would go. The prospective GM would be able to play it and see how things are supposed to flow. If you're not attempting to replicate that aspect, no need for the solo adventure.
2. That is "chrome", and is entirely up to you. What did you like about the officially published D6 material? Was it strictly the stats and mechanics? Was it the notable nod towards Star Wars and the way the game felt like it could replicate Star Wars? Was it something else? If you said it was how it felt like you could replicate Star Wars (maybe due to the flavor text or mock ads in the book, whatever), then you may want to make use of the "chrome" and put in whatever you are comfortable with.
3. I would say that it is fairly important for a person to know how the game works before they start making a character for the game. Otherwise they're making a character in a vacuum. They won't know what a "high skill" would be unless they have an idea of what the game is like. So I would say the basics of how the game works should be BEFORE character generation.
4. What is the focus of the book? Is this being made for another GM? Or is it being made specifically for the players? If you're not making this for the GM, don't include a GM section. If you're making this specifically for the GM, you can trim out some stuff that would really only be for the characters.
5. This answer is one I would have to spend a whole lot more time going over, so I'm punting on this one.
6. As above.
7. If you're going to make ALL races playable from the very beginning, put the playable races up where a person can pick them to make a character with. If you feel that some races should be reserved for people more familiar with the game, or that a player should likely never play the race for whatever reason, don't put it up where a person could choose it to play. Put the options for the players to use to make their character WITH the character creation. Would YOU be happy of making a character with a race and realizing, after you made the character, you could have chosen a different race that would have worked better? Since it was listed later, you didn't see it until after you had made your character. Likewise, how would you like to see a really cool race and get a great idea for a character with that race, only to find out "No, you can't play that one yet because you're not experienced enough" or whatever reason. Don't put in options they can't use for character generation, and don't leave out options they CAN use during character generation.
8. It depends entirely on how important you are going to be making equipment in your game. If it's of mild importance, but really more important that you "have one" than specifically which kind you have, put a "typical load" listing for the character types. Start with a blaster, a comlink, and a datapad. However, if you are putting a much greater emphasis on equipment, and Blaster Aaratech X-2 is significantly different from Blaster Blastech Mk 4, then you may want a listing of the most commonly available items up with character generation (at the end of character generation) for the players to shop from. Don't put in the esoteric stuff, or the illegal stuff. Save that for the MASTER list in the back of the book. But you could have a list of weapons and armor and typical gear that could be purchased with the character generation, and then a much more elaborate MASTER list in the back of the book.
9. This is a tough one. The Force could be part of the character generation, so it could be up with character generation. But there could a metric ton of Force powers in your game, and that would unnecessarily clog up the character generation section. So perhaps have the character generation section, and then in the very next section, have the Force section. That way for those that ARE using the Force can go into that section immediately as they are finishing their character. But those that are NOT using the Force can just gloss over that section if they need to.
Hope this helps some. |
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pakman
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Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for your comments folks - I sincerely appreciate them and those who take the time (I know most people are pretty busy).
My house rules book is coming along well - (almost done with my force powers as advanced skills section).
Now, I want to ask a few more on rules sequencing - how would you order things in a rulebook? (even most folks who love d6 think it could be organized better).
Here are some sections in alphabetical order - what sequence would you put them in the rules?
Attributes & Skills (would you separate?)
Big Battles (or merge?)
Equipment (armor, weapons, gear, lists of ships, vehicles, etc.).
Character Advancement (or put in skill section?)
Character customization (templates, etc.).
Character Templates (sample of a bunch - or would just have a table?).
Character quick start (with minor equipment).
Cybernetics (or put in another section).
Droids (or put in another section).
Force and Force Powers
Glossary of terms (beginning or end?)
Movement (or merge into 'the rules' section).
Opponents (npcs, beasts, etc.) or would you merge?
Rules (combat, healing, rounds, etc.)
Sample Adventure (if you had one).
Space Combat
Space travel (or would you skip it)
Species
Vehicle combat (or combine with space combat)
What order would you put them in?
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SW Fan, Gamer, Comic, Corporate nerd.
Working on massive House Rules document - pretty much a new book. Will post soon.... |
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Ziz
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Joined: 26 Feb 2022
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| pakman wrote: | How would you sequence/change the ORDER of the rules in the book?
in other words, the organization.
Many have made comments about the book bring poorly organized, so I am curious as to what they would change.
For Reference, here is the rough layout of REUP;
1 - INTRO
* SOLO ADVENTURE
* PLAYER HANDOUT (How the game works)
2 - Characters
* Template and Char Creation
* Background options, etc.
3 - ATTRIBUTES AND SKILLS
* Including skill difficulties
* Including Improving equipment
4 - GM Tips
5 - THE RULES
* Actions, Die Codes, Force Points etc.
6 - Combat/Injuries/Healing
7 - MOVEMENT - Char and Vehicles
8 - SPACE TRAVEL AND COMBAT
9 - Battles
10 - THE FORCE - and force powers
11- Running Adventures
12 - Designing Adventures
13 - SAMPLE ADVENTURE
14 - THE GALAXY (about the setting).
15 - NPCs
16 - ALIENS
17 - CREATURES
18 - EQUIPMENT and GEAR
19 - DROIDS (reference)
20 - VEHICLES (reference)
21 - SPACESHIPS (reference).
22 - PLANETS (reference).
Reference Tables
Character Templates
"
For example, I am considering placing the force powers section BEFORE all the stuff on space travel and vehicle combat, as using force powers feels more character related than what a character does. |
Force powers should be right after Attributes & Skills, as they're effectively more of the same, just limited to Force sensitive characters. |
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