The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Skill vs Skill
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Gamemasters -> Skill vs Skill
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Noom68
Cadet
Cadet


Joined: 24 Jan 2021
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:08 pm    Post subject: Skill vs Skill Reply with quote

didn't know how to title this anyway as a GM how do you determine what a fair opponent is for characters......for example you wouldn't put Fett up against a rookie..... is there a formula to figure it out, like maybe counting the dice the opponent has compared to characters' ???
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really; skill-based systems often have this problem, because, short of saying "They have the same skill", it can widely vary.

Generally, though? Check to see how close their skills are. Within a pip or two, they're evenly matched. Within a die or two, it's going to close, but the higher will probably win. If it's more than 3 dice? It's really iffy for the lower character. Since a die averages to 3.5, and the wild die to about 4 (given explosion gives you a ~83% chance of any number 1-5, and a 16.67% chance of 7+), your average on a roll of XD is (X-1)*3.5 + 4. That .5 in there means that a variation of more than X in the average is within a reasonable range... if I have a 3D, someone being about 3 points higher or lower than me keeps them in the average range. If I have 6D, the, a die either way is within the swing.

Of course, this runs into all sorts of other variables. If it's an assassin with 9D blaster against a wookiee, but using a sporting blaster, the wookiee will probably win, because the assassin won't be able to do enough damage to the wookiee without a lot of luck; the assassin NEEDS the first shot to stun the wookiee, so he can more or less stunlock him to the ground, and eventually make enough to wound the wookiee a few times. Lots of cover can make a difference if the skilled guy has a blaster and the less skilled guy has a vibroblade.

Lastly, the wild die for damage can cause swingy results. A myopic Hutt with a hold-out MIGHT take down a Star Destroyer with a single shot, provided the wild die explodes a truly unreasonable amount of times. You can, in theory, destroy the Death Star with a thrown rock... like, probability says it more or less can't happen, to the point where it's pointless to try, but if you roll a 6 on the wild die for damage 30-40 times in a row, it could happen. A bit more reasonably, though, you might be able to take down that wookiee with a hold-out, with only a few consecutive sixes.
_________________
"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14021
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Add to that. If it's say a mook storm trooper who has 7d blaster, because he's a "Veteran squad leader", but the pc only has 4d dodge at LEAST the PC can pop a force point (OR use CP), where more than often, the Mooks don't have any, or rarely have any.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10286
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Add to that. If it's say a mook storm trooper who has 7d blaster, because he's a "Veteran squad leader", but the pc only has 4d dodge at LEAST the PC can pop a force point (OR use CP), where more than often, the Mooks don't have any, or rarely have any.

I wouldn't classify any character with a 7D blaster skill as a mook.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14021
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some modules, list some of the 'veteran' or squad leader types, as easily being around 6 to 7d, but still only 0-3cp...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Some modules, list some of the 'veteran' or squad leader types, as easily being around 6 to 7d, but still only 0-3cp...

Maybe they just leveled up.

TyCaine's recent project could come in handy here. Want to know how PCs and NPCs stand relative to each other? Do the math and see which one has spent the most CP on their skills.

I could see a couple different versions: in-depth and snap-shot. For in-depth, do the total for every last skill the character has; for snap-shot, do only the most relevant skills (say, for a guideline, the Important Skills sidebar on pg. 19 of 2R&E).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)


Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4833

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on what kind of encounter I'm trying to make. There was one adventure where the party was trying to assist and train a budding rebel cell group. They reviewed the cell's intel and were planning an "easy pickin' sabotage mission."

Since the group was new, it was bad intel. The facility was producing the tech for Storm Commandos, and there was a single storm commando in the facility. The entire group was easily outmatched.

Priorities shifted and the new objective was to get the trainees and themselves out alive. They weren't trying to kill the commando, but survive the commando.
_________________
__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10286
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:00 pm    Post subject: mooks? Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Add to that. If it's say a mook storm trooper who has 7d blaster, because he's a "Veteran squad leader", but the pc only has 4d dodge at LEAST the PC can pop a force point (OR use CP), where more than often, the Mooks don't have any, or rarely have any.

I wouldn't classify any character with a 7D blaster skill as a mook.
garhkal wrote:
Some modules, list some of the 'veteran' or squad leader types, as easily being around 6 to 7d, but still only 0-3cp...

I think you may have missed my point. I have no objection to stormtroopers having 6D-7D in the blaster skill. Veteran or squad leaders should be more skilled. My point was, I wouldn't call a veteran or squad leader stormtrooper a "mook." Maybe they had started out as a mook, but by the time they are that skilled, they have advanced beyond the mook category.

Or are you saying that a mook is defined by how many CPs they have available to burn in play? That doesn't really make sense to me, because many players I know put all the CPs they can into character advancement, so they only ever carry around 0-3 spare CPs. PCs are never mooks by their attributes alone.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14021
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
It depends on what kind of encounter I'm trying to make. There was one adventure where the party was trying to assist and train a budding rebel cell group. They reviewed the cell's intel and were planning an "easy pickin' sabotage mission."

Since the group was new, it was bad intel. The facility was producing the tech for Storm Commandos, and there was a single storm commando in the facility. The entire group was easily outmatched.

Priorities shifted and the new objective was to get the trainees and themselves out alive. They weren't trying to kill the commando, but survive the commando.


Bad intel gets you every time.

Whill wrote:
My point was, I wouldn't call a veteran or squad leader stormtrooper a "mook." Maybe they had started out as a mook, but by the time they are that skilled, they have advanced beyond the mook category.

Or are you saying that a mook is defined by how many CPs they have available to burn in play? That doesn't really make sense to me, because many players I know put all the CPs they can into character advancement, so they only ever carry around 0-3 spare CPs. PCs are never mooks by their attributes alone.


Its more, that to most players i've had, stormies, regular thugs and the like. IE NON NAMED npcs, are all considered mooks. even if they were 'elite squad leaders, or veteran pilots etc... IF they had no name, just a 'status', they were seen as being mooks...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10286
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Noun
mook (plural mooks)
- - - 1. (slang, US) An incompetent person.
- - - 2. (colloquial, gaming) An anonymous foe that appears in large numbers and is readily dispatched by the hero.

garhkal wrote:
Its more, that to most players i've had, stormies, regular thugs and the like. IE NON NAMED npcs, are all considered mooks. even if they were 'elite squad leaders, or veteran pilots etc... IF they had no name, just a 'status', they were seen as being mooks...

I'd say you and most of your players are broadening the intended meaning too much. It's not all unnamed characters. Mooks are incompetent characters relative to the PCs. Mooks are a dime a dozen. Typical members of most species, typical crime organization goons, and maybe entry level stormtroopers. Veterans and squad leaders with 6D-7D in blaster are not incompetent or common. They aren't mooks.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Quote:
Noun
mook (plural mooks)
- - - 1. (slang, US) An incompetent person.
- - - 2. (colloquial, gaming) An anonymous foe that appears in large numbers and is readily dispatched by the hero.

garhkal wrote:
Its more, that to most players i've had, stormies, regular thugs and the like. IE NON NAMED npcs, are all considered mooks. even if they were 'elite squad leaders, or veteran pilots etc... IF they had no name, just a 'status', they were seen as being mooks...

I'd say you and most of your players are broadening the intended meaning too much. It's not all unnamed characters. Mooks are incompetent characters relative to the PCs. Mooks are a dime a dozen. Typical members of most species, typical crime organization goons, and maybe entry level stormtroopers. Veterans and squad leaders with 6D-7D in blaster are not incompetent or common. They aren't mooks.


Agreed. Well said, Whill.
_________________
RR
________________________________________________________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2258
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Whill's interpretation as well.

I used to run two campaigns using the CODA system (Lord of the Rings and Star Trek) and the fans for those games came up with "Mook Rules", which meant simply that a single hit dropped those targets, rather than having to whittle them away like normal characters (in the RAW).

So in that game, an Orc would be a "mook" when they fell like cannon fodder. The Orc Veteran or Squad Commander, even if unnamed, would not be a "mook".
_________________
Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10286
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Agreed. Well said, Whill.
DougRed4 wrote:
I agree with Whill's interpretation as well.

I used to run two campaigns using the CODA system (Lord of the Rings and Star Trek) and the fans for those games came up with "Mook Rules", which meant simply that a single hit dropped those targets, rather than having to whittle them away like normal characters (in the RAW).

So in that game, an Orc would be a "mook" when they fell like cannon fodder. The Orc Veteran or Squad Commander, even if unnamed, would not be a "mook".

For SW I do something as a compromise between the simplification you did and RAW. For my damage system, I differentiate between unimportant characters and important characters (PCs and important NPCs). Unimportant characters do not have wounded twice or mortally wounded, so they only have wounded, incapacitated, and killed. There are some other more minor differences as well.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14021
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By that logic, then i guess i DO expand what a "mook is".
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Gamemasters All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0