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Shields as Cover
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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not had a chance to imement the Shields as Cover rule in a game yet, but I have been thinking about the implications. As damage will be applied to the Shields alone first, there is a high likihood that damage will completely bypass the Shields, offering no protection at all. Let's look at the example of the TIE vs the X-wing. The TIE hits with 5D damage against the X-wing with 1D Shields. For the sake of this, let's forget the pip bonuses offered by Angling or Stabilizing Shields. More often than not, the lasers would penetrate the Shields and be fully applied to the 4D hull. I believe this would create more of a tipping point for shields so they are effective only to a point and much beyond that point, ships start popping. I believe this rule may well represent space combat as portrayed in ANH and RotJ. I also believe the additional rules for Angling and Stabilizing Shields will also help beef them up and give more value to a co-pilot/astromech droid.

I just keep running different ship vs ship scenarios in my head and I really think it is going to work well.


Last edited by Dr. Bidlo on Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That had occurred to me, but it seemed a worthwhile trade-off. If nothing else, it makes it so that the pilot doesn't just get to passively enjoy the protection of the shields, much like it is in the RAW. Unlike the RAW, however, rather than using his Shields skill to reposition his measly 1D of Shields in the arc he thinks he'll need it the most, he will be trying to stack as much of his Shield dice as possible into the threatened arc. Angling and Stabilizing allow for more trade-offs and granularity when it comes to how and where the shield controller places and positions the shields. Adding Auxiliary Power into the mix is an additional factor. Yes, an X-Wing would have a basic protection level of 1D, but this jumps up to 4D if the shield operator can stack all four shields in one arc, plus aux power, and that's before he tries to Stabilize, or any bonuses he might receive from Angling.

Whichever way it goes, I'll be looking forward to seeing how it works out.
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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Yes, an X-Wing would have a basic protection level of 1D, but this jumps up to 4D if the shield operator can stack all four shields in one arc, plus aux power, and that's before he tries to Stabilize, or any bonuses he might receive from Angling.


I just reread the entire thread and what you described above does not match the Shields as Cover rules you have posted. Earlier in thus post you said:

CRMcNeill wrote:
Another common tactic is to use the one Shield to reinforce the Shield in the opposite arc, resulting in one Arc being Protected at Shields +1D, the two adjoining arcs at Shields +0D, and the final arc having no Protection at all.


I thought this was a flat value regardless of the Shields value of a ship, but you may have intended it as an example only for an x-wing with only 1D Shields.

Interestingly, I was about to propose the idea of stacking the Shields from all four arcs - effectively quadrupling the Shields value of any ship, but making it harder to apply those shield dice to fewer arcs (the reverse of the RAW) as you have earlier proposed. I didn't know if it would be too powerful or if you would be open to the idea, but it sounds like you are.

Would you please verify your stance/thoughts?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the idea I proposed here, in #3. A ship has 4 arcs worth of Shields at the Base Value, but then can reposition them so they stack in other arcs. Difficulty increases with the number of Shields being stacked, but so does the amount of Protection they provide.

So, a ship with 1D Shields can position all four Shields into one Arc (on a Very Difficult Shields roll), and receive 3D of Protection. If the pilot chooses, he can divert his 1D of Auxiliary Power to the Shield dice, increasing his Base from 1D to 2D, and thus receive 4D of Protection.

And again, that's before you factor in Stabilizing or Angling.
Quote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Another common tactic is to use the one Shield to reinforce the Shield in the opposite arc, resulting in one Arc being Protected at Shields +1D, the two adjoining arcs at Shields +0D, and the final arc having no Protection at all.


I thought this was a flat value regardless of the Shields value of a ship, but you may have intended it as an example only for an x-wing with only 1D Shields.

No. This is an alternate option I threw in to somewhat recreate how we see Shields function in the X-Wing PC game, where fighters have two hemispherical shields, one front and one back.

In RAW, terms, it's a way for a pilot to bolster his Shields in one arc at lower Difficulty (especially valuable for single-pilot craft where the pilot is already soaking MAPs for Piloting and Gunnery). So, for example, if an X-Wing pilot did this to bolster his front shields, he'd have 2D in Front, 1D to left or right and 0D to the rear. If a Y-Wing (stronger Shields at 1D+2) did this, he'd have 2D+2 in Front, 1D+2 to left or right and 0D to the rear.
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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have used the same example before:
CRMcNeill wrote:
So, a ship with 1D Shields can position all four Shields into one Arc (on a Very Difficult Shields roll), and receive 3D of Protection.


I still don't get it though. If the ship applies all of its 1D Shields from all four arcs to one arc, wouldn't it have 4D Shields to the front, not 3D, and 0D to the left, right, and back?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, because I don't apply the bonuses arithmetically; I use the x2 = +1D Method. Stacking 4 Shields does not add 1D+1D+1D+1D to get 4D; it adds 1D every time you double the number of shields being stacked.

Using an exponential increase allows for meaningful bonuses at lower levels, but simultaneously caps them from becoming ridiculously powerful at higher levels.

Auxiliary Power adds a full 1D because it doubles the power output of the basic Shields, so a ship with 1D Shields has 1D in all four arcs, but if the ship puts Auxiliary Power to Shields, it goes up to 2D in all four arcs. Then, if the shield operator can stack all four shields in one arc, it gets a +2D bonus (for doubling Shields twice) up to 4D. Then additional bonuses for Angling and Stabilizing would stack on that.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*DING* Okay, so regardless of the Shields value of the ship, the bonus would be +2D to stack all Shields to one fire arc. That makes sense. Now that Victory Star Destroyer could have up to 5D Shields before aux, stabilizing, or angling instead of 12D!
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Bidlo wrote:
*DING* Okay, so regardless of the Shields value of the ship, the bonus would be +2D to stack all Shields to one fire arc. That makes sense. Now that Victory Star Destroyer could have up to 5D Shields before aux, stabilizing, or angling instead of 12D!

Exactly. Of course, that's where starfighter attacks come in handy, because if they can get around to the flanks or rear of an enemy ship, that ship can no longer concentrate all of its shields into one fire arc, and has to split its shields to counter. Of course, Shields also receive the same Scale Bonus as the ship projecting them, so that base of 3D is more like 9D against Starfighters.

But then, that's why I have things like pod-mounted heavy anti-ship or shield buster torpedoes, and give proton torpedoes the ability to ignore up to 3D of Shields on an attack...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's also worth noting that Angling becomes more effective the fewer Shields there are in an arc, as the Difficulty is lower the fewer shields you try to stack in an arc. I think it'd be worth applying a MAP for each Shield Arc the operator tries to Angle the Shields in, since he'll be dividing his attention between multiple arcs. Of course, that may be moot since a Capital Ship will have an entire Shield Control team...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used the Advanced Shields house rules and Shields as Cover in my game tonight. For squadrons of starfighters it got a little tedious, but I would have been better off using squadron rules anyway.

For single ship to ship combat, it worked exactly as I had hoped. The Shields either held/reduced damage or were completely bypassed, often destroying or seriously damaging the target ship. These are going to be in my House Rule book from now on!
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see my squadron rules being useful here, since the formation options would allow the bonus dice from coordinating as a squadron to be applied to either the evasion roll or the shields / damage roll, depending on which formation the squadron is in. And I also have a separate Damage Chart for resolving damaging hits against the squadron as a whole.
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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reread the rules for cover and protection in the R&E. I noticed in the example they gave, the shot from a heavy blaster pistol (5D) severely damaged the trash cans so it says the player then rolls 4D to the target (-1D). Do you play this way with a new damage roll or do you just subtract the die penalty from the original damage roll. I am asking for your personal preference.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it streamlined things to stick with the one Damage roll, then roll the Cover Modifier (-4D, -2D or -1D), if any, and subtract it from the original Damage roll. Why roll more dice in combat than you absolutely have to?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is how I have been playing it - less rolling makes the game go quicker. However, using the same damage roll increases that changes that a hit that bypasses the Shields will do significant damage to the ship. If you re-roll with the same damage dice or adjusted based on the Shields, it is more of a wild card. I am not pro or con, it just plays differently.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, both ways have their pros and cons. Since you have an active game, you have more opportunities to playtest and see how well both versions work for you.
_________________
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