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Fire Control & Speed Factors
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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Dr. Bidlo wrote:
I think I will look into this more after I get a full grasp on several of your other house rules I will be using. I need to introduce them gradually to my players and myself. For now, I will use modifiers to hit by speed, Shields house rules and Shields as Cover, capital ship command bonuses, and Aux Power for my next session.

I look forward to hearing how it works out.


So I used my own speed modifier rule, forgot the capital ship command bonuses rules so just said the command bonus was applied to hit and to damage instead of either/or and we all discusses Aux power and EVERYONE forgot to use it. So, it was a semi successful house rule implementation game session.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, to clarify, you used the rules from this post, and not the ones I posted here?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct. I got tied up in some things before the game so had not fully prepared by reviewing all the rules before the game. My top priority was getting those Shields rules tested, so I reviewed those first.

In context of this game, the speed rules were not as critical this game , as my players were covering a blockade of a planet where multiple slow freighters with starfighter escorts were trying to get past them to the planet. It was more of a game of the players managing finite resources to stop as many as possible, but when they got to them, they were fairly easy to destroy, disable, or get to surrender.

Speed will be a bigger factor in the next game - the land battle on Mimban. I will also need to review your rules about artillery for that one.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artillery may need to be updated, since the write-up already includes a Static Bonus for Moving Targets. If you plan to use my rules, the fix would be as simple as substituting the Speed Modifier in place of the Static Bonuses.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that it a very simple fix.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking I'll go through and add the base modifier from this rule to my stat posts, under Velocity Modifier...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I'm thinking I'll go through and add the base modifier from this rule to my stat posts, under Velocity Modifier...

Quick update on this: I've added Velocity Modifiers to the House Rule Section on the Starfighters & Scout Ships and Space Transports on the Index. I've hit a snag on the Ground Vehicles post, as their Speed stats don't translate cleanly over into the existing conversion formula. Shouldn't take too long to come up with something, though.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, an interesting thing...

As mentioned above, I put some time into working on a conversion formula for applying the Speed and Velocity Codes. The approach I took was to apply the environment modifiers to the Speed Code to Move Conversion chart on pg. 165 of the 2E Rulebook (Blue Vader). I started with 1D Walking at the -4D (Move: 3; 10 km/h) and continued in ascending order. When I reached the point where the next level of the Environmental Modifiers would have a value greater than 0D, I added that result, as well. Here's the full chart:
    3; 10 km/h = 1D Walk
    5; 15 km/h = 1D+1 Walk
    7; 20 km/h = 1D+2 Walk
    8; 25 km/h = 2D Walk
    10; 30 km/h = 2D+1 Walk / 0D+1 Surface
    14; 40 km/h = 2D+2 Walk / 0D+2 Surface
    18; 50 km/h = 3D Walk / 1D Surface
    21; 60 km/h = 3D+1 Walk / 1D+1 Surface
    25; 70 km/h = 3D+2 Walk / 1D+2 Surface
    26; 75 km/h = 4D Walk / 2D Surface
    28; 80 km/h = 4D+1 Walk / 2D+1 Surface
    30; 90 km/h = 4D+2 Walk / 2D+2 Surface
    35; 100 km/h = 5D Walk / 3D Surface
    45; 130 km/h = 5D+1 Walk / 3D+1 Surface / 0D+1 Atmosphere
    55; 160 km/h = 5D+2 Walk / 3D+2 Surface / 0D+2 Atmosphere
    70; 200 km/h = 6D Walk / 4D Surface / 1D Atmosphere
    80; 230 km/h = 6D+1 Walk / 4D+1 Surface / 1D+1 Atmosphere
    90; 260 km/h = 6D+2 Walk / 4D+2 Surface / 1D+2 Atmosphere
    105; 300 km/h = 7D Walk / 5D Surface / 2D Atmosphere
    115; 330 km/h = 7D+1 Walk / 5D+1 Surface / 2D+1 Atmosphere
    125; 360 km/h = 7D+2 Walk / 5D+2 Surface / 2D+2 Atmosphere
    140; 400 km/h = 8D Walk / 6D Surface / 3D Atmosphere
    150; 430 km/h = 8D+1 Walk / 6D+1 Surface / 3D+1 Atmosphere
    160; 460 km/h = 8D+2 Walk / 6D+2 Surface / 3D+2 Atmosphere
    175; 500 km/h = 9D Walk / 7D Surface / 4D Atmosphere
    185; 530 km/h = 9D+1 Walk / 7D+1 Surface / 4D+1 Atmosphere
    195; 560 km/h = 9D+2 Walk / 7D+2 Surface / 4D+2 Atmosphere
    210; 600 km/h = 10D Walk / 8D Surface / 5D Atmosphere
    225; 650 km/h = 10D+1 Walk / 8D+1 Surface / 5D+1 Atmosphere / 1D Space (0D+1)
    260; 750 km/h = 10D+2 Walk / 8D+2 Surface / 5D+2 Atmosphere / 1D+2 Space (0D+2)
    280; 800 km/h = 11D Walk / 9D Surface / 6D Atmosphere / 2D Space (1D)
    295; 850 km/h = 11D+1 Walk / 9D+1 Surface / 6D+1 Atmosphere / 2D+2 Space (1D+1)
    330; 950 km/h = 11D+2 Walk / 9D+2 Surface / 6D+2 Atmosphere / 3D Space (1D+2
    350; 1,000 Km/h = 12D Walk / 10D Surface / 7D Atmosphere / 3D+2 Space (2D)
    365; 1,050 km/h = 12D+1 Walk / 10D+1 Surface / 7D+1 Atmosphere / 4D Space (2D+1)
    400; 1,150 km/h = 12D+2 Walk / 10D+2 Surface / 7D+2 Atmosphere / 4D+2 Space (2D+2)
    415; 1,200 km/h = 13D Walk / 11D Surface / 8D Atmosphere / 5D Space (3D)
    435; 1,250 km/h = 13D+1 Walk / 11D+1 Surface / 8D+1 Atmosphere / 5D+1 Space (3D+1)
    450; 1,300 km/h = 13D+2 Walk / 11D+2 Surface / 8D+2 Atmosphere / 6D Space (3D+2)
    470; 1,350 km/h = 14D Walk / 12D Surface / 9D Atmosphere / 6D+2 Space (4D)
    485; 1,400 km/h = 14D+1 Walk / 12D+1 Surface / 9D+1 Atmosphere / 7D Space (4D+1)
    505; 1,450 km/h = 14D+2 Walk / 12D+2 Surface / 9D+2 Atmosphere / 7D+2 Space (4D+2)
    520; 1,500 km/h = 15D Walk / 13D Surface / 10D Atmosphere / 8D Space (5D)
The two takeaways I gained from this is that 1) the Environment Modifiers don't mesh with WEG-assigned speeds for aircraft (they end up in the +10D range for Space craft, and not the +5D Range for Aircraft) and 2) the Space Speeds don't match up with the conversion rates from the Ships In Atmosphere chart on pg. 129 of the 2R&E Rulebook.

I had originally pulled the +2D/+5D/+10D Speed Code Modifiers from the Mini Six game book and just kind of assumed it would automatically mesh with 2R&E, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

So I decided to try a modified chart that removed all of the +1 results (as in, progression would now run 1D, 1D+2, 2D, 2D+2, etc.) in order to make the Space Codes match up at the lower end of the chart. After some tweaking, I also decided to throw out the Space Modifier and fold Aircraft and Spaceships into a single category. Here's what I came up with:
    3; 10 km/h = 1D Walking
    5; 15 km/h = 1D+2 Walking
    7; 20 km/h = 2D Walking
    8; 25 km/h = 2D+2 Walking
    10; 30 km/h = 3D Walking
    14; 40 km/h = 3D+2 Walking
    18; 50 km/h = 4D Walking
    21; 60 km/h = 4D+2 Walking
    25; 70 km/h = 5D Walking
    26; 75 km/h = 5D+2 Walking
    28; 80 km/h = 6D Walking
    30; 90 km/h = 6D+2 Walking / 0D+2 Vehicle
    35; 100 km/h = 7D Walking / 1D Vehicle
    45; 130 km/h = 7D+2 Walking / 1D+2 Vehicle
    55; 160 km/h = 8D Walking / 2D Vehicle
    70; 200 km/h = 8D+2 Walking / 2D+2 Vehicle
    80; 230 km/h = 9D Walking / 3D Vehicle
    90; 260 km/h = 9D+2 Walking / 3D+2 Vehicle
    105; 300 km/h = 10D Walking / 4D Vehicle
    115; 330 km/h = 10D+2 Walking / 4D+2 Vehicle
    125; 360 km/h = 11D Walking / 5D Vehicle
    140; 400 km/h = 11D+2 Walking / 5D+2 Vehicle
    150; 430 km/h = 12D Walking / 6D Vehicle
    160; 460 km/h = 12D+2 Walking / 6D+2 Vehicle
    175; 500 km/h = 13D Walking / 7D Vehicle
    185; 530 km/h = 13D+2 Walking / 7D+2 Vehicle
    195; 560 km/h = 14D Walking / 8D Vehicle
    *210; 600 km/h = 14D+2 Walking / 8D+2 Vehicle / 0D+2 Flying (Space 1)
    225; 650 km/h = 15D Walking / 9D Vehicle / 1D Flying (Space 2)
    260; 750 km/h = 15D+2 Walking / 9D+2 Vehicle / 1D+2 Flying (Space 3)
    280; 800 km/h = 16D Walking / 10D Vehicle / 2D Flying (Space 4)
    295; 850 km/h = 16D+2 Walking / 10D+2 Vehicle / 2D+2 Flying (Space 5)
    330; 950 km/h = 17D Walking / 11D Vehicle / 3D Flying (Space 6)
    350; 1,000 Km/h = 17D+2 Walking / 11D+2 Vehicle / 3D+2 Flying (Space 7)
    365; 1,050 km/h = 18D Walking / 12D Vehicle / 4D Flying (Space 8)
    400; 1,150 km/h = 18D+2 Walking / 12D+2 Vehicle / 4D+2 Flying (Space 9)
    415; 1,200 km/h = 19D Walking / 13D Vehicle / 5D Flying (Space 10)
    435; 1,250 km/h = 19D+2 Walking / 13D+2 Vehicle / 5D+2 Flying (Space 11)
    450; 1,300 km/h = 20D Walking / 14D Vehicle / 6D Flying (Space 12)
    470; 1,350 km/h = 20D+2 Walking / 14D+2 Vehicle / 6D+2 Flying (Space 13)
    485; 1,400 km/h = 21D Walking / 15D Vehicle / 7D Flying (Space 14)
    505; 1,450 km/h = 21D+2 Walking / 15D+2 Vehicle / 7D+2 Flying (Space 15)
    520; 1,500 km/h = 22D Walking / 16D Vehicle / 8D Flying (Space 16)
I realize this looks like a jumbled mess, but the upshot is that it allowed me to come up with relatively proportional Speed Codes and modifiers for ground vehicles that allow said ground vehicles to use other Speed Code-based rules (like using thrust to resist tractor beams, or to establish range in a dogfight or chase).

It also provides the baseline for assigning Velocity Modifiers to Characters and Ground Vehicles, as well as generating an alternate version of the Environment Modifiers, specifically +3D to Vehicle and +7D to Flying/Space.

Anyway, that's what I wasted my day on. Hopefully it turns out to be useful for something...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spent a full day noodling over these very same items and it was very frustrating but I did end up with something and saved in for future reference. I'll have to see how your end results match up with mine. There are worse ways to spend a day than exercising your mind!

EDIT: After reviewing more, your analysis was much deeper than mine!
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Bidlo wrote:
I spent a full day noodling over these very same items and it was very frustrating but I did end up with something and saved in for future reference. I'll have to see how your end results match up with mine. There are worse ways to spend a day than exercising your mind!

EDIT: After reviewing more, your analysis was much deeper than mine!

At the moment, I'm mainly using the charts to generate Speed Codes and Velocity Modifiers for ground vehicles. There are other possibilities, but that's a good enough place to start with.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, here's the combined chart I'm using to generate both Speed Codes for Ground Vehicles and Velocity Modifiers for everything. The three different Speed / Velocity levels are Walk (+0D), Surface (+6D/3D) and Flight (+14D/7D)
    2E Move (Space Units) = Speed Code (Velocity Modifier)
    3; 10 km/h = 1D Walk (0D+2)
    5; 15 km/h = 1D+2 Walk (1D)
    7; 20 km/h = 2D Walk (1D)
    8; 25 km/h = 2D+2 Walk (1D+1)
    10; 30 km/h = 3D Walk (1D+2)
    14; 40 km/h = 3D+2 Walk (2D)
    18; 50 km/h = 4D Walk (2D)
    21; 60 km/h = 4D+2 Walk (2D+1)
    25; 70 km/h = 5D Walk (2D+2)
    26; 75 km/h = 5D+2 Walk (2D+2)
    28; 80 km/h = 6D Walk (3D)
    30; 90 km/h = 6D+2 Walk (3D+1) / 0D+2 Surface (0D+1)
    35; 100 km/h = 7D Walk (3D+2) / 1D Surface (0D+2)
    45; 130 km/h = 7D+2 Walk (4D) / 1D+2 Surface (1D)
    55; 160 km/h = 8D Walk (4D) / 2D Surface (1D)
    70; 200 km/h = 8D+2 Walk (4D+1) / 2D+2 Surface (1D+1)
    80; 230 km/h = 9D Walk (4D+2) / 3D Surface (1D+2)
    90; 260 km/h = 3D+2 Surface (2D)
    105; 300 km/h = 4D Surface (2D)
    115; 330 km/h = 4D+2 Surface (2D+1)
    125; 360 km/h = 5D Surface (2D+2)
    140; 400 km/h = 5D+2 Surface (3D)
    150; 430 km/h = 6D Surface (3D)
    160; 460 km/h = 6D+2 Surface (3D+1)
    175; 500 km/h = 7D Surface (3D+2)
    185; 530 km/h = 7D+2 Surface (4D)
    195; 560 km/h = 8D Surface (4D)
    210; 600 km/h (Space 1) = 8D+2 Surface (4D+1) / 0D+2 Flight (0D+1)
    225; 650 km/h (Space 2) = 9D Surface (4D+2) / 1D Flight (0D+2)
    260; 750 km/h (Space 3) = 9D+2 Surface (5D) / 1D+2 Flight (1D)
    280; 800 km/h (Space 4) = 10D Surface (5D) / 2D Flight (1D)
    295; 850 km/h (Space 5) = 10D+2 Surface (5D+1) / 2D+2 Flight (1D+1)
    330; 950 km/h (Space 6) = 11D Surface (5D+2) / 3D Flight (1D+2)
    350; 1,000 Km/h (Space 7) = 3D+2 Flight (2D)
    365; 1,050 km/h (Space 8) = 4D Flight (2D)
    400; 1,150 km/h (Space 9) = 4D+2 Flight (2D+1)
    415; 1,200 km/h (Space 10) = 5D Flight (2D+2)
    435; 1,250 km/h (Space 11) = 5D+2 Flight (3D)
    450; 1,300 km/h (Space 12) = 6D Flight (3D)
    470; 1,350 km/h (Space 13) = 6D+2 Flight (3D+1)
    485; 1,400 km/h (Space 14) = 7D Flight (3D+2)
    505; 1,450 km/h (Space 15) = 7D+2 Flight (3D+2)
    520; 1,500 km/h (Space 16) = 8D Flight (4D)

EDIT: So, the differences in "Speed Scales" end up being thusly:
    Walk +0D
    Surface +6D
    Flight +14D
That's mainly in the unlikely event you'd ever have a contest of speed or a dog fight between a Walker / Surface / Flying vehicle (unlikely, but I included it just in case).The "Velocity Scales" are potentially more useful, in that they would better represent how the different Speed Classes affect accuracy. A character trying to shoot at a starfighter or airspeeder, for example, would suffer a -7D penalty; a surface vehicle, on the other hand, would have a slightly better chance, but still suffer -4D.
    Walk +0D
    Surface +3D
    Flight +7D

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While this does give me the baseline to update the vehicle stats, I've noticed as I start to go through them that some vehicles are in need of an update to some of my other house rules (like the Command Difficulty Modifier). As such, I think I'm going to finish updating the Capital Ship and Bulk Transport sections, then come back and work on the ground vehicles.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I've added Velocity Modifiers to all starfighters, space transports and capital ships. Since that was the easy part (and because Bidlo is running a capital ship campaign), I figured I'd get that out of the way before I got to work on ground vehicles.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much for your work on this - it will be of great use.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just realized I had forgotten to add the expanded Speed Code / Velocity Modifier table to the original rule post, so I went ahead and compiled the two to reflect the updated math.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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