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The Book of Boba Fett [Spoilers Allowed]
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those kids don't seem out of place to me. Seems kinda like the loser kids with a dead-end future that Owen would want to keep Luke from turning into.

I am glad Jennifer Beals is a recurring character and not just a one-off cameo.
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Ray
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"We have brought you a gift!"

Mom: OMG, they brought Boba a Danny Trejo! ... Oh, look, a Rancor, too.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of, we now need stats for Danny Trejo in the Star Wars Universe.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We got see on screen a Wookiee tear off an arm! (Poor Trandoshan!).
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThrorII wrote:
I feel there is a large bait-n-switch between the BF we got in Mando S2 and the BF in BoBF.

Is it possible that BF is just not that great a character to hold his own? Does he work better as a mysterious antagonist?

Well, the original bait-and-switch occurred in RotJ, where the mysterious antagonist from TESB turned out to be nothing more than slapstick comedy relief. Boba was ultimately an early Jar Jar prototype, the primary differences being that Boba worked for an evil crime lord, and that until that reveal he looked cool instead of goofy. The bait-and-switch was part of the joke because it was unexpected, and in my experience it was very successful. In 1983, I distinctly remember the packed theater erupting into laugher at Boba Fett's on screen antics. It seemed to be the funniest part of the movie, because the antics involving the Ewoks did not evoke that degree of response. But we've literally had almost 39 years to get over that "bait-and-switch."

I disagree that the recent bait-and-switch was between The Mandalorian and Book. I see the big, recent bait-and-switch being between the Boba Fett of RotJ and The Mandalorian. A slapstick comedy character who literally died with a burp was resurrected as a serious badass. And although somewhat mysterious, before his character and motivations were informed by dialogue such as "What if he doesn't survive? He's worth a lot to me," prequel-echoed by the man he was cloned from who literally worked for both sides of a galactic conflict saying, "I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe." AotC added that Boba probably also hates Jedi from seeing one cut off his "father's" head, which actually serves to make his comedic demise in RotJ even funnier.

Temuera Morrison's resurrected Boba Fett in The Mandalorian almost completely forgets about about Boba's appearances in the Lucas films. Boba is suddenly this man that has both an evil glee in his eyes when he kills enemies, but also a man with some sense of honor. The Book of Boba Fett seems to just be expanding upon The Mandalorian Boba Fett.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThrorII wrote:
My big issue is WHY is this show made? They don't really seem to have an actual direction they are going.

"Boba Fett wants to be a crime lord" is the plot (as it is). But Boba Fett has no infrastructure, training, knowledge, or mindset to be a crime lord. The show is in actuality more like "Boba Fett continually getting his @$$ handed to him and doesn't hurt people anymore." Which is a strange view of a crime lord...

Episode 4 finally gave Boba's reasoning for wanting to become a crime lord. Not that it is a very convincing motivation.

Darklighter79 wrote:
Whill wrote:
I'm not so sure about youth getting designer cybernetic implants for fun, but yeah maybe to the rest of that. Sure, vespa speeder gangs exist somewhere in the galaxy, but yeah, they were sorely out of place on Tatooine.

It was like Neo-StarWars-Cyberpunk - "style over substance" (like Akira or Cyber City Odeo 808) but in a tamed version of PG-13.

I'm not that familiar with Cyberpunk, but this was my also impression.

TauntaunScout wrote:
Those kids don't seem out of place to me. Seems kinda like the loser kids with a dead-end future that Owen would want to keep Luke from turning into.

Well two of Luke's friends with a dead-end future are still on Tatooine four-five years later, and they didn't turn into PG-13 cyberpunks.

TauntaunScout wrote:
I am glad Jennifer Beals is a recurring character and not just a one-off cameo.

She was 57 years-old when they filmed her. She looks amazing!

Ray wrote:
Speaking of, we now need stats for Danny Trejo in the Star Wars Universe.

Telsij isn't around much anymore to do it, so get to it, Ray!

Ninja-Bear wrote:
We got see on screen a Wookiee tear off an arm! (Poor Trandoshan!).

No, just like in Solo, we didn't actually see it on screen. That would be too graphic for a PG-13 aesthetic. It happened just offscreen, and then the Trandoshan and his arm fell down into view. First the train scene in Episode 2 and now this – Is it surprising that the Solo film seems to be an influence on this Disney+ show when this show's creator and executive producer starred in that film?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill to me that’s a mere technicality about the arm being ripped off. I’ll take it still.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja-Bear wrote:
Whill wrote:
Ninja-Bear wrote:
We got see on screen a Wookiee tear off an arm! (Poor Trandoshan!).

No, just like in Solo, we didn't actually see it on screen. That would be too graphic for a PG-13 aesthetic. It happened just offscreen, and then the Trandoshan and his arm fell down into view. First the train scene in Episode 2 and now this – Is it surprising that the Solo film seems to be an influence on this Disney+ show when this show's creator and executive producer starred in that film?

Whill to me that’s a mere technicality about the arm being ripped off. I’ll take it still.

Did you not take it in Solo? Chewbacca the original Wookiee tore two arms off, just offscreen. The body falls down and we see Chewie holding the arms. I'm sorry, but I read your post as if you were saying that we were seeing something in TBoBF we hadn't seen before. Did you just mean, we got to see another Wookiee de-limbing?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:33 am    Post subject: THE BOOK OF BOBA FETT Reply with quote

After only seeing the first episode, I didn't feel I had anything positive to add so I stayed out of the discussion. I didn't want the first page of the thread to have me poo-pooing the show, especially after seeing that I seemed to be in the minority and most here are liking it. After the second episode (which I actually enjoyed some aspects of), I went back and re-watched the first two episodes before watching the third, and I took some brief notes on the first four episodes. I have mixed feelings about the show, but I definitely have a lot more interest in it since first watching the first episode. So far, I have just replied to others. Here are some more of my other thoughts...

Boba's under-armor suit - It is clearly grey in TESB and RotJ (and ANH SE). When he gets out of the Sarlacc, and some sand falls away, suddenly it is white. I guess the acid in the Sarlacc burned away the color. (White makes sense from a real-world perspective with all those scenes of Temuera Morrison in the hot, sunny desert.) Of course this isn't jarring like the big change in body size from Boba going into the Sarlacc to coming out, but the only film they have shown in TBoBF flashbacks in AotC. I am trying to disregard contradictions to classic canon and enjoy these live action Disney+ sequels on their own merits. Like ignoring that somehow no wreckage of Jabba's sail barge and skiffs ended up in the Sarlacc.

Boba survives the Sarlacc - It was damn convenient that a stormtrooper just happened to be in the Sarlacc, and that he must have died before he used up his suit's small oxygen supply, and that the oxygen storage somehow hadn't been damaged by the acid, so Boba could find a tube, rip it off, and suck out enough oxygen for him to burn and claw his way out of the Sarlacc. Silly, but I'm kind of intrigued by the story of the stormtrooper. Was he a stormtrooper with a damaged comm that got lost in the desert looking for droids four years earlier?

Mos Espa - I have no issue with the previously unseen part of Mos Espa in the huge indentation in the ground. I can accept that as canon in my SWU. It's a big city and that part of it just wasn't shown in TPM or AtoC.

Black melons - Water is found in a black melon fruit underground in the desert. I like it. It explains how Tuskens without moister vaporators get water and part of the water cycle on Tatooine after some urine inevitable gets underground before all the water it would evaporate.

Boba and the Tuskens

I have long thought that Tuskens aren't inherently evil. They may just feel territorial because they were there first before all the galactic colonists and Hutts moved in. But then AotC threw that for a loop by having a tribe of Tuskens abduct Shmi Skywalker and torture her for a month. That wasn't even typical revenge for a perceived slight or hatred against all humans in general, because they didn't just kill her. They tortured her for an entire month, but not for interrogation or towards some end. They had to do it because they enjoyed it. That is some seriously evil sh!t right there. Cliegg Lars' describes them as animals, but the Tuskens that tortured Shmi weren't innocent animals that didn't know any better. They were fully sentient beings who enjoy being evil. However, it would be just as speciesist as Cliegg Lars to say all Tuskens were evil. The films don't do much to support this, but maybe Tuskens are just like humans – some are good and some are bad.

Boba said Tuskens have an ancestral claim to the Dune Sea, which goes along with the native territorialism view of Tuskens. However it's not so clear what the purpose of Boba's Tusken tribe was in having prisoners. Slave labor? Playthings for the kids, which they inexplicably let a lone child take possession of to go out into the desert and dig for black melons after Boba showed he was a rebellious prisoner?

Boba's Tusken tribe wearing black and tan made for some variety in appearance. Some of them looked cool, particularly the chieftain. However, it makes no practical sense for a desert people out in the daytime to wear black. If they were nocturnal, sure, but not out in the bright hot suns. Incorporating black into their tan garb really served as a transitional contrivance to explain Boba's desert attire. When he he appeared in The Mandalorian, he wore black robes and had a gaffi stick. Back then we thought, maybe he killed a Tusken and took it. Now we know Boba had been part of the tribe and made that weapon. So now he wore black because he was in that tribe, and just so happen to lean on the all-black side of tan+black. This does also work to explain that now he wears black under his armor, which looks better than the character's original costume.

I enjoyed the 'teaching Tuskens to ride speeder bikes' sequence, but not as much as the spice train: a great, derivative action sequence inspired by an awesome film action sequence. I loved the train conductor droid with four limbs (that serves as both arms and legs). And the droid clearly demonstrated my concept of power routing. But what I noticed that surprised me is that I found myself rooting for Boba and the Tuskens, so the spice train sequence had achieved some level of dramatic success by making me sympathize with Boba and seeing him as a protagonist in the story of some sort.

However, the train very likely took the same route every time it passed through the area, and it makes no sense that the Tuskens would just stay out in the open. Dialogue even refers to the Tuskens having to hide, so them staying out in the open and losing tribe members and banthas every time the train passed by is stupid. If the whole Dune Sea belonged to their people they could have picked up camp and moved out of range of the train shooters or behind some protection/cover.

After helping them with the train problem and earning their trust, Boba joins the tribe by going on the psychedelic lizard vision quest for some mythical tree that must really exist somewhere on Tatooine, from which he returns with a branch that, with some guidance, he uses to make his gaffi stick. Cool, but a potential problem with all of this is, Boba has no expectation to wear the Tusken headgear to be considered a member of the tribe. Why do Tuskens wear them then? In the EU, it was cultural, and this extended to extra-species members of tribes. When a Tusken's face was exposed to others, he had no value and was cast out of tribe. So are DU Tuskens like Mandalorians, where only some sects have that value and others don't? And the ones that don't just wear the headgear because of tradition that the zealots do? To hide their faces on raids to remain anonymous? The question still remains, if Boba's tribe has no cultural requirement to never show their faces, why didn't they?

Five years later...

After Boba's Tusken tribe is wiped out, the time jump in the flashbacks was jarring. It is strongly implied that Boba spent five years checking on the the guard movement at the hanger of Jabba's Palace where his ship was every day and deciding, not today. Every day, for five years. It's bad enough that Slave-1 didn't leave Jabba's hanger for five years (like Fortuna wouldn't have sold it if not using it), but Slave-1 still being there is almost as contrived as the Falcon just collecting dust for years on Jakku, but then on top of that Boba's life was in a holding pattern for five years just to move the narrative forward from the immediately post-RotJ timeframe to the The Mandalorian timeframe. That is so contrived.

Boba found a wanted assassin dying in the desert and spent a lot credits on saving her life, counting on her honor to make her feel she owed him so she would help him break into the Palace to steal his ship? Silly plot. If he had the kind of money needed to save her life with expensive cybernetics, he could have bribed his way in and out or paid for something else to help him.

And Boba believed that the Sarlacc had reclaimed his armor. That Jawa must have pistol whipped Boba pretty hard because otherwise it should have been pretty obvious to Boba that Jawas took his armor so it wouldn't be there anymore. Furthermore, after living on Tatooine for five years, Boba never once heard that his armor was being used by a lawman in a town? Come on. Boba braving the acid of the Sarlaac to look for his armor was silly, as was the destruction of the Sarlaac. And damn, the Slave-1's design is just so incredibly stupid. It just might be the stupidest and ugliest ship in Star Wars. Anyway, in five years Boba somehow never learned that Coy Vance had his armor, but as soon as Mando shows up and takes it, suddenly Boba is on the case.

Bib Fortuna - We learn that Boba believes that Bib Fortuna double-crossed him in some way, but we still haven't learned why. As it has played out so far, this seems like a huge misstep with the show. Since Boba killed Fortuna in The Mandalorian stinger, they should have established back in The Mandalorian what Fortuna did to double-cross Boba.

Bacta - As we finish the flashbacks, we learn why Boba slept in Bacta. He was apparently healing scar tissue and/or a long-term wound (perhaps with chronic pain) from the Sarlacc acid. Interesting, but the coolest part is the horizontal bacta tanks, which made much more sense than what we saw on Hoth. I had put two horizontal bacta tanks in the medical bay of the Odyssey, a modified MC-13v2 in my game.

Mok Shaiz - The Ithorian mayor with translator is a cool alien.

The Twins - I love Hutts and I love Jabba's cousins.

Klantooinians - The Klantooinians designs are really cool.

Black Krrsantan - The Wookiee character is such a cool design. I found out that the character is an existing DU comic character who they realized in live action for the show. I believe he and Boba already have a history before the show.

Trandoshans - The Trandoshans that speak Basic with eyes that dilate and blink are cool. And it was a nice touch to include a hint of the species animosity between Wookiees and Tandoshan.

Gamorreans - I like the new design for Gamorreans. Well realized.

Pykes - I just love that the Pykes turned out to be fish-head people. Their live action re-imaging in Solo was already superior to the freaky animated version, but now they are way better. Such a cool alien design.

Nikto sand riders - The Nikto gang were pretty cool.

Hassks - WEG created the Lasat based on Ralph McQuarrie concept art for Wookiees, and an animated DU version was was created for Rebels. Hassks were a different species also inspired by McQuarrie concept art for Wookiees which first appeared in TFA. They remind me of the fun WEG Tatooine Manhunt character Puggles Trodd. Good to see more Hassks in the backgrounds of Mos Espa.

Aqualish - They are okay but I like the prequel species with four eyes better. And did you notice that Boba said he needed a translator droid after an Aqualish came to pay tribute, but then in a later episode, Boba's majordomo droid, who was there with the Aqualish paying tribute, could suddenly translate Aqualish? They must have given him in a programming update offscreen.

In-universe Ralph McQuarrie painting - During the vespa speeder chase, one of the cyberpunks flies through a painting that is closely based on a Ralph McQuarrie concept art painting of inside Jabba's Palace. They had edited the art to remove Luke Skywalker from the painting.

The Rancor Pit - It was funny that falling into the Pit made the assassin talk, but then groaningly convenient that the Twins brought Boba a new rancor. And I'm not sure what to think about baby Rancors imprinting on the first human it sees?

Permission to kill Hutts - Fennec said that they would need permission to kill the Twins. From whom? Other Hutts?

Boba the Hutt?

Quote:
MAYOR’S MAJORDOMO: Actually, there is one other matter, if I may?
BOBA FETT: What is it?
MAJORDOMO: The matter of tribute.
FETT: I’m confused.
FENNEC SHAND: He wants you to pay him.
FETT: What? I’m the crime lord. He’s supposed to pay me.

So the fourth episode finally revealed Boba's motivation for becoming a crime lord, because working for idiots will get him killed and it was time to take his shot at being the boss. So Boba was mad at Jabba for being dumped in the Sarlacc Pit? There is not much in TBoBF so far to justify that.

There is also nothing in RotJ to justify that. How was Jabba responsible for Luke cutting Boba's blaster in half and getting out of his wire trap? How is it Jabba's fault that Boba missed Luke at point blank range with his wrist lasers, so that the threat was not neutralized in time for a blind man to unintentionally knock Boba into the Sarlacc? Boba's takeaway from that is, he shouldn't have been working for Jabba. There is not much in RotJ to explain Boba's motivations. So with or without film canon, it just doesn't make any sense for Boba to want to be a crime lord.

Boba's character just doesn't make any sense. Temuera Morrison has exaggerated expressions when Boba is killing enemies, with a look of evil glee on his face. But Boba has a code of honor that make him help Mando all the way until Boba has to avoid reuniting with Luke Skywalker. On Tatooine he wants to rule with respect instead of fear. He actually said, "Sorry" when he thinks he may have offended someone.

And this show seems to have a muddied confusion of galactic crime intrigue and local crime intrigue. Jabba was the leader of one of the five galactic crime syndicates. Bib Fortuna may have become a local crime lord taking control of some of Jabba's local assents, but he couldn't have taken over the Hutt syndicate. It makes no sense that the Twins would show up five years after Jabba's death to claim Jabba's throne. They couldn't have taken it from Fortuna five years ago? In the latest episode, Boba said that the Pykes have been slowly taking over the planet (even though they already had a spice train route very shortly after Jabba's death). Boba lived on Tatooine for five years before he briefly left the planet to get retrieve his armor and help Mando for a few things the but he seems almost as clueless as we are to even the local power dynamics.

The Music

TBoBF music is scored by the composer of The Mandalorian. The distinctive appearance of The Mandalorian's main theme at the end of the last episode clearly signals that a Mandalorian crossover is happening this week.

But what some of you may not realize is that The Book of Boba Fett's main theme includes an aspect of the "Crimson Dawn" theme from Solo. This seems to be a dead giveaway about a key to the plot of this series. TBoBF has included several callbacks to Solo. The Pykes are fish, but "there's always a bigger fish." Is it Qi'ra?

I used the "white colour" spoiler tagging above because some of you oblivious to musical themes may want to be surprised.
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Ninja-Bear
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn’t remember if Chewbacca did it in Solo. If so Mea Culpa. I must’ve forgot. I do remember the cut see from TFA.

Oh how was it Jabba’s fault? Well Luke said he was a Master Jedi and he killed a Rancor. Boba has dealings with Jedi. Even if he felt he could take one on, I’m sure he still thought it be risky. And haven’t watched in a while but Luke did offer to make a deal with Jabba. So Boba did make a comment how Crimelords act reckless. So perhaps he’s thinking if Jabba made the deal the Sarlacc thing never would’ve happen. And as to him forgetting his armor was stolen. Yeah that’s reasonable. Conclusions are nasty in real life.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m pretty sure that now in canon the Sand People’s Cycler is a slug thrower. I always viewed it as a Laser Rifle with a slow recharge rate hence cycler. Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja-Bear wrote:
I couldn’t remember if Chewbacca did it in Solo. If so Mea Culpa. I must’ve forgot. I do remember the cut see from TFA.

Oh how was it Jabba’s fault? Well Luke said he was a Master Jedi and he killed a Rancor. Boba has dealings with Jedi. Even if he felt he could take one on, I’m sure he still thought it be risky. And haven’t watched in a while but Luke did offer to make a deal with Jabba. So Boba did make a comment how Crimelords act reckless. So perhaps he’s thinking if Jabba made the deal the Sarlacc thing never would’ve happen. And as to him forgetting his armor was stolen. Yeah that’s reasonable. Conclusions are nasty in real life.


I agree. Luke was very reasonable and offered to negotiate for the release of Captain Solo several times.

Boba must have been thinking "If I had been on the throne, I would have negotiated and parted with my 'trophy'. I would have not only gotten richer, but would have remained alive...along with most of my hirelings."

He was forced to fight Luke because he accepted the paycheque to work for Jabba and his honour demanded that he live up to the bargain. We see the kind of crime lord he wants to be and he seems very willing to negotiate to solve problems where possible...and not get the people working for him killed.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: THE BOOK OF BOBA FETT Reply with quote

Whill wrote:


Boba's Tusken tribe wearing black and tan made for some variety in appearance. Some of them looked cool, particularly the chieftain. However, it makes no practical sense for a desert people out in the daytime to wear black. If they were nocturnal, sure, but not out in the bright hot suns.


Bedouins wear black. They live in the desert and are active in the sun.

Science.

https://gizmodo.com/the-physics-that-explain-why-you-should-wear-black-this-5903956

Quote:

We're all encouraged to wear white in summer, since white clothing is supposed to keep us cool — but it doesn't. In fact, black clothing is the best way to keep cool in the heat. It's basic physics. And biology. Find out why cool people will wear black this summer.

Generally in summer, we're treated to lines of loose summery white clothing. Not only is the white supposed to look nice floating around the edges of a picnic — until a few seconds into the event, when it has its first grass stain — people claim that white is the ideal way to keep cool in the summer. When we see white, we're seeing the combination of all possible visible light. This means that white clothing reflects a great deal of wavelengths of energy coming in. This means it should reflect the sun's rays back, instead of letting them cook us. And that's perfectly correct.

Except that this explanation is also incomplete. Heat is not just coming in off of the sun. It's also coming off a person's own, sweating, warm-blooded, mammalian body, which is a lot closer than the sun is. When all that body heat hits the white clothing covering it, it gets reflected right back towards the body. When we wear white, we cook ourselves.

The best color to keep cool in the heat, it turns out, is to wear black. Black absorbs everything coming in from the sun, sure. But black also absorbs energy from the body instead of reflecting it back. Now, the helpfulness of black clothes depends on finding black clothes that are the same thickness and looseness as those summery white clothes. Black clothing also needs a little help from atmospheric conditions. Once it has absorbed heat, it has to have some way to radiate it away. If there's even a little wind, black clothing is the better choice for those who want to keep cool, like goths who understandably don't like sweating through their make-up. So find something black to wear this summer.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is great. Thanks.

I personally wear a lot of black. I am not goth but black is most of my wardrobe. I tend to regret wearing black when I go out in the sun. But, maybe it is just my personal tolerance for the type of heat I am experiencing. Black shirts feel hotter to me, and from what you posted, that makes sense. It is absorbing the heat and not reflecting it as much. Maybe I can tolerate my own heat reflected back at me more than the feeling of the hot shirt. Maybe it is also because I am rarely out in sun for the long haul if I can help it anyway. I take a medication that has a side effect of making me more susceptible to sun burn. Most commercial sunscreens tend to have toxins that I generally avoid. And I am very fair skinned as it is, so I try not to push it.

Regarding Tuskens, we don't even know if they are mammals. They could be ectothermic lizard people. Mammals would sweat and want to ventilate body heat sometimes in a desert, but Tuskens never take their headgear off, so lizard people makes more sense to me. And the science of wearing black out in the sun doesn't eliminate my point that Tuskens have always been shown wearing tan colors until now, and the only reason that they had these Tuskens partially wear black is to contrive a transition to Boba wearing all black.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja-Bear wrote:
I’m pretty sure that now in canon the Sand People’s Cycler is a slug thrower. I always viewed it as a Laser Rifle with a slow recharge rate hence cycler. Thoughts?

It always was a slugthrower in legends and canon both. The only place it is referred to as a laser rifle is in the original Star Wars comic book #1, which is just considered a mistake. In early '77, Marvel didn't know any better.
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