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Force User's Handbook
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Whill
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forceally wrote:
I'm thinking about including sections dealing with the construction of lightsabers, Jedi holocrons, and Sith holocrons. There's very little information about the latter two, with the Sith having slightly more info than the Jedi counterpart. Question for you: should I do this or not?

Sounds awesome. Since there is little information about construction of holocrons, you could have two sections: one for lightsaber construction, and one for holocron construction that addresses both Sith and Jedi holocrons.

Forceally wrote:
I once again ask this - should I put up a section about the powers used by the Ones from Mortis? The powers they used seem to be unique, with the exception of red Force lightning. And speaking of that power, I'm not including it's appearance from the Visions anime. Like I said before, for one to use red Force lightning, they must be exceptionally power and steeped in the Dark Side, or at a site like Mortis or the World Between Worlds.

Yes, for completeness you could include the powers uniquely used by the Ones from Mortis, but sure, they can be in their own section.
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Forceally
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Joined: 20 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Whill. I can do the section for the lightsabers easily, since there's so much info out there already. I just need to gather it together and organize it. I also know that I'm going to be including powers dealing with the construction of the lightsabers. Namely lightsaber construction, harmonize lightsaber crystals, and bleeding. I'm debating about having the holocrons in one section or splitting it into two - Jedi and Sith. I say that because outside of the Wook and Powers of the Jedi, there's no source for Jedi holocron construction. Thanks to Darth Bane: Path of Two, there's more information about Sith holocron construction. That's why I'm considering having the holocron construction in two sections.

Like I said before, I need to watch Disney+ to see the Mortis arc again, and for completeness the Rebels show dealing with Bendu and the Worlds between Worlds. Just thinking about those two, especially the latter, makes me wonder about making another section all together while combining Bendu's powers with the Ones', assuming he has any unique abilities of his own. Anyway, back to the Ones, IIRC, there were three powers that were unique to them or were introduced by them: red Force lightning, which has already been stated; metamorphosis, which both Son and Daughter used and is distinct from any metamorphic abilities utilized by alien species like the Neti; and the Daughter's ability to push the energy blade of the lightsaber back into the hilt without damaging or destroying the weapon. If they have any other abilities, please let me know.

And what I said before about that one other Force power, I'm wondering if I should create a Sith version along with the Jedi version. Or has that already been created, either by WEG, WotC, or me. Here's to more research, and I want to get that done before Phase II begins.

So here's my progress list as it is:
Overall progress: 25% complete
Two Force Powers: 100% complete.
Meditation exercise: 100% complete.
Special Force Powers: 25% complete.
Lightsaber section: 0% complete.
Holocron section: 0% complete.
Sith Holocron section: 0% complete.
The Ones section: 25% complete.
Bendu section: 0% complete.
World Within Worlds: 0% complete.
Phase II powers: 0% complete
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Forceally
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you can see, I've been updating my progress meter, so as to speak. The highest I can get to at this time is 90%. The remaining 10% won't happen until after Phase II begins.

I did some research, and from what I found, the Sith version of the power I'm thinking of isn't in the Force Powers pdf or my work. I did have a brief reference to it in my notes, but none of the details. Sadly, that power first appeared on the defunct SWRPGNetwork. Which means I may be forced to come up with my own version of it. But I think I need to look at the Book of Sith again. Don't think it contains the information I'm looking for, but I'll check again.

My list includes separate sections for The Ones, Bendu, and Worlds within Worlds. Should I keep them separate, or combine them like I did for the Force traditions in the Unknown regions that appeared in the Chiss Ascendancy trilogy and the Force traditions on Weik.

Speaking of Bendu, he may be unique, but as far as I can see, he didn't exhibit any unique abilities. Gotta check on something to verify that.

Progress list as it is:
Overall progress: 25% complete
Two Force Powers: 100% complete.
Meditation exercise: 100% complete.
Special Force Powers: 25% complete.
Lightsaber section: 0% complete.
Holocron section: 0% complete.
Sith Holocron section: 0% complete.
The Ones section: 25% complete.
Bendu section: 0% complete.
World Within Worlds: 0% complete.
Phase II powers: 0% complete
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Forceally
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been searching through clips on YouTube and the Wook. When I made the list, I forgot about the Force Priestesses Yoda and seemingly Qui-Gon encountered. I would consider making another section for them, but then I looked at the clips. They guided Yoda, but never exhibited any Force powers. Bendu showed Force powers, but most we've seen before. I covered his ability to control the storm and his ability to disappear via teleporting. The Ones - again most of their powers are known to us or I've covered. After reading the Wook, I can conclusively say that there are two powers that have yet to be detailed. As it stands, the Bendu section and the Force Priestesses section can be removed since they have exhibited no new powers. The question is should I? Or should I merge them with the Ones section and the World between Worlds section.
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Whill
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could merge them all into one section called "Unique Force Entities and Worlds" or something to that effect. That is for the sake of completeness but only say as much as needed for each one, putting the couple original powers with the subsection of the ones who used them.
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Forceally
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
You could merge them all into one section called "Unique Force Entities and Worlds" or something to that effect. That is for the sake of completeness but only say as much as needed for each one, putting the couple original powers with the subsection of the ones who used them.



Sorta like what I did with the Force traditions on Weik and the Force traditions from the Unknown Regions. Right? I was thinking of taking that route. It's going to feel a little funny writing about them, but not including any powers. The closest I came to that in the past were when I detailed those other Force traditions and how to allocate the skills, Force skills, and powers to them. You know the Zeison Sha and Warden of the Sky. I'll put up an updated progress listing when I can.

Thanks for the input.
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Whill
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other option is, if they have no powers to include then you can leave them out completely. It's up to you.
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Forceally
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
The other option is, if they have no powers to include then you can leave them out completely. It's up to you.


I'm inclined to do that with Bendu and the Priestesses. The Priestesses never showed any powers, and what Bendu showed has already been documented. So that'll consolidate three parts into one.

Progress list as it is:
Overall progress: 28.64% complete
Two Force Powers: 100% complete.
Meditation exercise: 100% complete.
"Special Section - title hidden for spoiler reason": 16.6% complete.
Lightsaber section: 0% complete.
Holocron section: 0% complete.
Sith Holocron section: 0% complete.
"Unique entities and worlds - tentative title": 12.5% complete.
Phase II powers: 0% complete
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Whill
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Forceally
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's near the end of the month, so here's an update. I've nearly completed the "special section", and to tantalize you all, I'm going to play the Hangman's game with you all in regards to the title of this section. Whenever I post an update on the progress, I'll add a letter and let you wonder what this section will cover. I hinted at it in previous posts. So let's start with the number of words and letters in the title.

Progress list as it is:
Overall progress: 37.51% complete
Two Force Powers: 100% complete.
Meditation exercise: 100% complete.
-----_--_-----------: 99% complete.
Lightsaber section: 0% complete.
Holocron section: 0% complete.
Sith Holocron section: 0% complete.
"Unique entities and worlds - tentative title": 12.5% complete.
Phase II powers: 0% complete

Now I have a question, and it might have been one I asked previously, but I don't recall the answer. With Force weapon, you can increase the damage to your melee weapon and make it strong enough to parry a lightsaber. From the description, it sounds like you need to be holding the weapon for this to work. Can I use this power to "charge" a knife or discblade, throw the weapon at the target, and still have the weapon retain the "charge", inflict additional damage, and even cut through stormtrooper armor like a lightsaber would?

I need to read Shadows of the Sith to bring the hidden section up to 100% and see if Padawan introduces any new Force groups or powers.
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Luwingo_Spince
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a intriguing question. I did a search of your document and though I found references to Force weapon in other powers, I didn't see a separate power for Force Weapon.

That being said I think the answer is in the force throw power that has force weapon as a requirement which states that a thrown weapon does normal damage if it hits.
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Forceally
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luwingo_Spince wrote:
It is a intriguing question. I did a search of your document and though I found references to Force weapon in other powers, I didn't see a separate power for Force Weapon.

That being said I think the answer is in the force throw power that has force weapon as a requirement which states that a thrown weapon does normal damage if it hits.



I looked at the power you mentioned, and that's not the solution. A spear, a javelin, and a dagger/knife are designed to be thrown, so they're thrown weapons. A sword and a club aren't designed to be thrown like a spear can, so using thrown weapon to throw a sword at an enemy will incur a penalty. Force throw negates that penalty.

And Force weapon is in the original Force Powers pdf.

The purpose of my question is this - the Zeison Sha use the discblade as their signature weapon, just as the lightsaber is the signature weapon of the Jedi. A Zeison Sha can throw their discblade at the enemy using thrown weapon. A Zeison Sha can use kinetic combat on their discblade to guide their discblade to the target and then recall it. Just like the Jedi can do with their lightsaber. Maul did it with his saberstaff to eliminate the Black Sun leaders. Rey did it with Luke's saber during her training session.

Based on the description, Force weapon will allow a Jedi to empower a melee weapon, like a staff, with the Force, making it strong enough to parry a lightsaber. That's what Vodo Siosk-Bass did with his staff when he dueled against Exar Kun.

I can see a Zeison Sha empowering the discblade in order to increase the damage when using it as a melee weapon. Given the shape and thickness of the discblade, I cannot see a Zeison Sha empowering the discblade with Force weapon and then using it to deflect blaster fire like a Jedi can with a lightsaber. Parry against a lightsaber, maybe. Deflect blaster fire - no. A Jedi uses lightsaber combat to do that. The discblade's design is too different from the lightsaber, making it impractical for a Zeison Sha to deflect blaster fire with a discblade by using, for lack of better terms, discblade combat. But that's my opinion. Furthermore, given the resentment Zeison Sha have towards the Jedi, I don't see them wielding a lightsaber unless absolutely necessary, and I don't see them learning lightsaber combat.

Now we set up this scenario. A Zeison Sha sees a stormtrooper wielding some kind of shield that can withstand blaster fire. Said stormtrooper is approaching a friend with intent to harm. Discblade can strike the stormtrooper, but won't penetrate the shield, which isn't an energy shield. Now, with the powers that are available in my work and the Force Powers pdf, an idea comes to mind. A Zeison Sha uses Force weapon on the discblade so it can cut through the shield. A Zeison Sha using said power and then attacking the stormtrooper using melee combat to wield the empowered discblade. Result - success in cutting through the shield, as described by the Force weapon power. However, if the Zeison Sha throws the empowered discblade at the stormtrooper with the shield, the result is a failure. The moment the discblade leaves the Zeison Sha's hand, he is no longer touching the weapon. He is no longer channeling the Force through the weapon. The discblade loses it's charge and therefore has no chance of cutting through the stormtrooper's shield.

Is my portrayal of this scenario correct? Are the results correct? That's what I want to know.

I still have to go read Shadows of the Sith, but I did go through Padawan. No new traditions. No new powers. But it did give me a new location to add.

I'm also going to have the Holocrons and Sith Holocrons in one section. And after a scene in the Obi-Wan TV show and what happened to Darth Maul, I'm beginning to think of a new Force power. I can definitely say it'll be a dark side power

So with that, I can update my progress list, and add a letter to the hangman's game.

Progress list as it is:
Overall progress: 37.95% complete
New Force Powers: 66.7% complete.
Meditation exercise: 100% complete.
P----_--_-----------: 99% complete.
Lightsaber section: 0% complete.
Holocron/Sith Holocron section: 0% complete.
"Unique entities and worlds - tentative title": ?% complete.
Phase II powers: 0% complete
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Luwingo_Spince
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading the original Force Weapon, it states This power can only be used on the Force user’s personal weapon, and only while he uses the weapon himself. The power lasts for five rounds, after which time it must be
activated again.

The way it reads an argument could be made for both sides, but I think that the scenario you suggest makes more sense to the original intent of the power it being temporary and "while he uses it himself" which implies welding the weapon.

Force weapon also has the warning that a character who uses this
power in order to injure or kill a helpless being
immediately gains a Dark Side Point. Which implies a light sider would only use this power for defense or in desperate measure and not used as projectile weapon.

If the character wanted to throw a force empowered blade weapon he could use the sword alchemy or Sith Alchemy to do it permanently. Which seems more inline anyways.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luwingo_Spince wrote:
Reading the original Force Weapon, it states This power can only be used on the Force user’s personal weapon, and only while he uses the weapon himself. The power lasts for five rounds, after which time it must be
activated again.

The way it reads an argument could be made for both sides, but I think that the scenario you suggest makes more sense to the original intent of the power it being temporary and "while he uses it himself" which implies welding the weapon.

Force weapon also has the warning that a character who uses this
power in order to injure or kill a helpless being
immediately gains a Dark Side Point. Which implies a light sider would only use this power for defense or in desperate measure and not used as projectile weapon.

If the character wanted to throw a force empowered blade weapon he could use the sword alchemy or Sith Alchemy to do it permanently. Which seems more inline anyways.


as to thrown force weapons, we can look to the Zeison Sha and their Disc blade which is a force imbued thrown weapon they use with their telekinesis.

now this is the personal weapon of course
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Forceally
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried, you got exactly what I'm interested in. I was wondering if a Zeison Sha could use Force weapon to "charge" his discblade before throwing it at an enemy, allowing the Zeison Sha to do with the discblade what a Jedi can do with a lightsaber using kinetic combat. The stickler point was whether or not the discblade could keep the charge once the Zeison Sha throws it. At the moment, the answer is no. I need to look over the RCRB and Saga d20 info about the Zeison Sha to see if either one says a Zeison Sha can do what I currently believe they can't. If so, then there's a new section and power to come up with.


Well, I checked. Hero's Guide lists Discblade Affinity as a class feature for the Zeison Sha. That allows a Zeison Sha to use Force weapon on their discblade to increase damage and to parry a lightsaber. Doesn't say anything about allowing a Zeison Sha to perform the scenario I described above.
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